General Chat

Concerning Mary, Mother of Jesus, a question that has been asked a million times.

Was Mary a Perpetual Virgin as the Catholic Church claims ?

Did Joseph marry twice ?

Re Joseph

It's thought he died prior to Jesus' adult ministry:

"The last time Joseph appears in person in any Gospel book is in the story of the Passover visit to the Temple in Jerusalem when Jesus is 12 years old, found only in Luke. No mention is made of him thereafter.[10] The story emphasizes Jesus' awareness of his coming mission: here Jesus speaks to his parents (both of them) of "my father," meaning God, but they fail to understand.(Luke 2:41–51).

Christian tradition represents Mary as a widow during the adult ministry of her son. Joseph is not mentioned as being present at the Wedding at Cana at the beginning of Jesus' mission, nor at the Passion at the end. If he had been present at the Crucifixion, he would under Jewish custom have been expected to take charge of Jesus' body, but this role is instead performed by Joseph of Arimathea. Nor would Jesus have entrusted his mother to the care of John the Apostle if her husband had been alive.[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Joseph#Modern_appraisal

The different versions of The Last Supper or demonstrations of iconography.

It must have taken great conviction and courage to preach among strangers, especially as you were being rejected, hated even in your own part of the world.

The Roman Jew Saul who changed his name to Paul was a huge convert as he had
pursued the Disciples in order to punish them. Amazing his written work survived..

What became of Mary's husband Joseph ?

Good morning :-)

Yes David, no public transport in those days! :-D


Today we look at St. Bartholomew and St. James the Elder.

Bartholomew (also known as Nathanael )Died 1st Century AD in Armenia. Feast day 24th August

Patron saint of bookbinders; butchers; Florentine cheese and salt merchants leather workers; neurological diseases; plasterers; shoemakers; curriers; tanners; trappers; twitching; whiteners

Bartholomew Nathanael, son of Talmai, lived in Cana of Galilee. His apostolic symbol is three parallel knives. Tradition says he was a missionary in Armenia. A number of scholars believe that he was the only one of the 12 disciples who came from royal blood, or noble birth. His name means Son of Tolmai. Tolmai was king of Geshur whose daughter, Maacah, was the wife of David, mother of Absolom.

The New Testament gives us very little information about him. Tradition indicates he was a great searcher of the Scripture and a scholar in the law and the prophets. He developed into a man of complete surrender to the Carpenter of Nazareth, and one of the Church's most adventurous missionaries. He is said to have preached with Philip in Phrygia and Hierapolis also in Armenia.

The Armenian Church claims him as its founder and martyr. However, tradition says that he preached in India, and his death seems to have taken place there. He died as a martyr for his Lord. He was flayed alive with knives.


------------------

James the Elder Died AD 40 Feast day 25th July

Patron saint of Veterinarians, equestrians, furriers, tanners, pharmacists, oyster fishers, woodcarvers.

James, the Elder, son of Zebedee and Salome, brother of John the Apostle; a fisherman who lived in Bethsaida, Capernaum and Jerusalem. He preached in Jerusalem and Judea. He was a member of the Inner Circle, so called because they were accorded special privileges.

The New Testament tells us very little about James. His name never appears apart from that of his brother, John. They were an inseparable pair. He was a man of courage and forgiveness, a man without jealousy, living in the shadow of John, a man of extraordinary faith. He was the first of the twelve to become a martyr.

His symbol is three shells, the sign of his pilgrimage by the sea. James was beheaded by Herod.

Lord Jesus Christ, you invite us to proclaim your gospel of hope and salvation here at home and to all nations and peoples. Teach us to be faithful evangelists in word and in action. Amen.

Cx :-)

Jesus told two of his Disciples to follow a man carrying a pitcher of water into town, into a house to enquire where the room was.

Mark Ch 14

Given the limited transportation available back then thee covered some distance.

Good morning :-)


I googled the picture last night and was struck by how many variations there are. I particularly liked this one.....


Last supper http://jonmcnaughton.com/the-last-supper-16x24-oe-signed-by-artist-litho/


Today, we will take a brief look at the lives of two of the Apostles - Peter and his brother John. There is obviously more but I have tried to keep things brief - ??

St. Peter and St. Andrew were the sons of Jonas. They lived in Bethsaida and Capernaum and both were fishermen.

ST. PETER Died AD 67 in Rome Patron Saint of Popes and Fishermen Feast Day 29th June.

In every apostolic list, the name Peter is mentioned first. He was also known as Cephas (Hebrew), Simon (Greek). The Greek meaning of Simon is rock. The Arabic meaning of Cephas is also rock. Jesus called him a rock.

Among the twelve, Peter was the leader and spokesman for the Apostles. It is true, Peter had many faults, but he had always the saving grace of the loving heart. No matter how many times he had fallen and failed, he always recovered his courage and integrity. It was, also, believed by the crowds that the mere casting of his shadow upon the sick was capable of bringing about miraculous healing.

Towards the end of his life, Peter was in Rome. The historian Jowett wrote that Peter was cast into a horrible prison called the Mamertine. For nine months, in absolute darkness, he endured monstrous torture manacled to a post. In spite of all the suffering Peter was subjected to, however, he converted his jailers, Processus, Martinianus, and forty-seven others.

Peter was martyred on a cross. He requested that he might be crucified head downward for he was not worthy to die as his Lord had died. His apostolic symbol is a cross upside down with crossed keys.


ST ANDREW Died AD 62 in Greece Patron Saint of Fishermen and singers. Feast Day 30th November.

Andrew was the first to have the title of Home and Foreign Missionary. He is claimed by three countries as their Patron Saint-Russia, Scotland and Greece. Many scholars say that he preached in Scythia, Greece and Asia Minor. His main purpose in life was to bring others to the master.

According to tradition, it was in Achaia, Greece, in the town of Patra that Andrew died a martyr. When Governor Aepeas' wife was healed and converted to the Christian faith, and shortly after that the Governor's brother became a Christian. Aepeas was enraged. He arrested Andrew and condemned him to die on the cross.

Andrew, feeling unworthy to be crucified on the same-shaped cross as his Master, begged that his be different. So, he was crucified on an X-shaped cross, which is still called Saint Andrew's Cross and which is one of his apostolic symbols. A symbol of two crossed fish has also been applied to Andrew, because he was formerly a fisherman.

Lord, help us to be faithful servants too. Amen.


Cx :-)

In our copy of The Last Supper, the Disciple with his left hand on John's throat /neck.
has his right hand at table level pointing backward, holding a blade.
Interesting detail.

Good morning all. :-)

The King of France was so taken with The Last Supper he wanted to take it with him.

But, due to the size of it, and the fact it was painted on a wall this would be impossible

without destroying it. So a copy of it was painted on a Convent wall, on the opposite

wall was painted the scene of the Crucifixion.

Good morning :-)


A couple of interesting conversations on here over the weekend. :-D Your poor dog Pat...aww.....hope she has recovered her equilibrium now <3 It's interesting to read about the number of churches and very reminiscent of what happened here at the turn of the last century. We have some brilliant photos of our church with its burgeoning groups taken many years ago. Row upon row of young men and women in their various organisations. All looking rather stern... hahaha

As the state doesn't pay for the upkeep of our churches here, it's quite a problem for many churches to keep going nowadays.

As for the paintings of the Last Supper David.....I must go and take a look. :-D


Moving on...…


Last week we spent some time recalling the resurrection appearances of Jesus, many of which were to his disciples. He selected 12 men from among his early followers to become his closest disciples and named them apostles. After an intensive discipleship course and following his resurrection from the dead, the Lord fully commissioned the apostles to advance God's kingdom and carry the gospel message to the world. They were :

• Simon, whom he named Peter
• Andrew - Peter’s brother
• James
• John
• Philip
• Bartholomew
• Matthew
• Thomas
• James the son of Alphaeus,
• Simon who was called the Zealot
• Judas [also called Thaddeus or Jude] the son of James
• Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

Interestingly, not one of the chosen 12 disciples was a scholar or rabbi. They had no extraordinary skills. Neither religious, nor refined, they were ordinary people, just like you and me.

Tomorrow we will take a look at the lives of Simon (Peter) and his brother Andrew.

Lord Jesus Christ, you call us to follow you as disciples. Help us to respond wholeheartedly without counting the cost. Amen.

Cx :-)

I've read The Da Vinci Code and seen the film. Dan Brown's character was implying the party on the left of Jesus was his partner, possibly his wife. The story, (fictional) proceeds to the detective female assistant being a descendant of their union.

There are so many copy's of The Last Supper many showing the Disciples with different stances and expressions.

Judas Iscariot is third to the right of Jesus, or left as you view it.

Another week gone already, a week of interesting posts. Thank you Cynthia and all the other contributors.

David, you are posing some interesting questions and making me think and do a bit of googling and reading. I am assuming that it is da Vinci’s Last Supper that you are talking about. If I understood correctly what I read, Leonardo da Vinci had left notebooks which were rediscovered in the 19th century. Somewhere in those books he named the disciples in the picture and he says the one next to Jesus is John which makes sense to me. (Giovanni is simply Italian for John.). I hope your wife enjoys her picture.

Lovely posts this week again Cynthia x

I bought my wife a copy of The Last Supper . The scene captures where Jesus has announced one of those at the table would betray him. The shock is captured in the expressions and gestures of the twelve. In attempting to identify the individual Disciples I have found that the effeminate looking Disciple to the right of Jesus or left as you look at the painting as, John, Mary, and Giovanni by different experts.
Any ideas ?

Gwyn the Cypriots are quite a wealthy people now with the amount of tourism. The church is very rich and up to recent years it didn't pay tax. That altered but before new rules came in new churches sprung up so that the tax would be reduced because a lot of the money had been spent. Even small villages have more than one church so the celebrations can't be avoided. Next village has 2 large churches and 2 small ones.

Think - Victorian times, new wealth and must seen to be good and go to church, especially on very religious days and bonfire night in UK with youths and young adults going over the top and you had yesterday/early this morning.

Thank you Cynthia for your posts to always inspire and inform.

Goodness Pat. That is quite a performance. The Cypriots don't do things by halves, do they?
It's a long time since I lived there, first on the edge of Famagusta, then later at Dhekelia and Ayios Nikolaos and I don't recall all the celebration, but I do remember a wheat and yogurt soup. My husband hated it, when our lovely Cypriot neighbour gave each of us some, so I felt duty bound to eat mine, so as not to offend.
Was that the same mix that could be dried and hand rolled into thin sausage shaped biscuits?
I remember a rather dry Easter bun? too....Can't remember it's correct name.

It's always interesting to learn how other people celebrate known festivals.

Well quiet was restored by 00.45 and we had coaxed the dog out of the downstairs toilet, her safety cave in times of stress. Having given her a big cuddle and assuring her all was now OK I went to bed.

02.15 the second part of the service finished and a 2nd firework display, different from earlier years. All went quiet about 20 minutes later - then we had 2 cars going around the village honking their horns. :-(

My dog had spent all night in the toilet and she was still there when I came downstairs at 07.30. Funny the village was very quiet when I walked her - perhaps I should have got her to walk around barking ;-)

The hospitals will have extra staff on the next 2 days. After Lent when no meat is eaten BBQs are lit and the Cypriots gorge on meat. Many end up in A & E with stomach complaints.

Roll on Tuesday and normality ;-) :-D :-D

Good morning :-)

Goodness, certainly a celebration Pat! Late night/early morning vigils are quite popular here but not necessarily with the amount of ceremonial. We used to hold one at 8.00pm on the Saturday night - it was a lovely service.

After the great high of Easter we come back down to earth with a bump and so today is called ‘Low Sunday’. It is also known as 'Quasimodo Sunday'. The character from the Victor Hugo book was named Quasimodo because he was found in church on this Sunday in which the introit in Latin began….. “Quasi modo geniti infants…….”

The Collect (special prayer) for today

Almighty Father,
you have given your only Son to die for our sins
and to rise again for our justification:
grant us so to put away the leaven of malice and wickedness
that we may always serve you
in pureness of living and truth;
through the merits of your Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
who is alive and reigns with you,
in the unity of the Holy Spirit,
one God, now and for ever.

The gospel tells the story of Jesus appearing to his disciples……

Cx :-)

No ringing for Notre Dame but this morning on the dog walk 2 of our village's churches were ringing at the same time so for about 5 minutes it was a continuous noise of clang,clink,clang, clink. :-S

No early night for us this evening. 2 services today, this morning and then one late tonight.

The church services start at 11 pm and few minutes before midnight, the lights in the church are switched off and the choir chants the story of three women (myrrh bearers) who arrived at Christ’s tomb only to find it empty. The lights are switched on again at midnight precisely and the priest calls the congregation to “take from his candle the light which never dies.” The flame is passed from person to person until everyone is holding a lit candle. The ceremony then continues outside the church when there's a bonfire and fireworks , after which, the priest returns inside again to begin the special Sunday liturgy for another two and a half to three hours. The Holy Fire (in Greek "Holy Light") is described by Orthodox Christians as a miracle that occurs every year at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem on Great Saturday, or Holy Saturday, on the eve of the Orthodox Easter.

After the ‘Christos Anesti’ chants (Christ is Risen) most of the congregation leave to celebrate with family and friends by watching more firework displays and to enjoy a meal of the traditional Cypriot trachana (a creamy, savoury soup of wheat and yogurt) or magiritsa (a creamy soup with a tangy lemon twist and pieces of meat).

ps Oh yes! As soon as I saw your name Pat, I thought 'Oh good! Bells.' :-D

Were any of your local bells involved in the ringing for the solidarity with the Notre Dame blaze?