General Chat

Good morning everyone. A flying visit today as I am soon going out because it is our annual Christmas Fair at church. I am running a coffee stall as usual and I need to make sure that the boiler is on!!


A short prayer for today:


Prayer for the Start of Day

This is another day, O Lord. I know not what it will bring forth, but make me ready, Lord, for whatever it may be. If I am to stand up, help me to stand bravely. If I am to sit still, help me to sit quietly. If I am to lie low, help me to do it patiently. And if I am to do nothing, let me do it gallantly. Make these words more than words, and give me the Spirit of Jesus. Amen.



Take care all. Cx :-)

For translation purposes I used to liken the old type bibles to interpreting Shakespeare .....The meanings became clear when someone explained the passages but it was also great fun seeing who could interpret them before the teacher and whether they were right or wrong. I still love the old fashioned Victorian bibles.

I am afraid I am one who didn't like the introduction of the good news bible It seemed to lose something which I can't quite explain :-(

I think the Good News Bible is brilliant. Problem with modern Bibles for me is that they tend to be based on 1881 Revised Translation of Tregelles, Dr Hort and Bishop of Durham, Bishop Westwood. It was a poor translation, based on questionable selection of early manuscripts, I believe.

The earlier English Bibles before 1881 were based on what is known as the Received Text, which used similar original manuscripts from 1st -3rd centuries to those used by Tyndale and Erasmus. So any translation pre 1881 is likely to be more sound that any post 1881.

The Good News never claims to be more than a paraphrase, and I personally use GNB rather than NIV, NKJV, RSV etc in a less formal church or chapel. And always KJV (AV) in a traditional place of worship, where almost all the congregation are familar with the famous old words which are the base of many of the older hymns.

Almost every line of every Charles Wesley hymn is from the AV Bible. Almost every line of John Wesley's 44 published sermons is full of AV quotes. Same with preaching of Baptist Charles Haddon Spurgeon in 19th century. And Congregational Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones in 20th century. Many of latter's sermons weer recorded and are available now to download free and are very inspiring and true to Scripture.

I must admit that, for personal reading, I too like the Good News version but can understand why, for public reading there needs to be a particular criteria for keeping as close to the original translations as possible.

I have often been in discussions where some folk have got in a muddle because they have mis-interpreted something they have read, and it has taken a more experienced person to help them out. I have been helped many times and am very grateful to those who have studied and explored the faith more than I have.


Morning Dermot and Vera :-D

John, your post reminded me of the outcry there was in the church where I was then living when the Good News Bible was introduced there. My children would then have been about 11 and 13 and going to "Junior Covenanters" at the church. Some of the traditionalists seemed to regard it almost as some sort of heresy, particularly as this version of the Bible had originated in America! They soon got used to it though.

"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else". - C. S. Lewis (RIP - 50 years).

There was an immediate divide in Sunday School. We boys would love the stories of David and Goliath and Salome and John the Baptist. Anything blood-curdling. And the girls would love stories like Ruth and Naomi. I wonder why girls seem to be innately sugar and spice and all things nice :-) ;-) And why they always look tidy and always smell nice:-S

I hardly ever attended a church after Sunday School days till I was about 34 or 35. And if that C of E list had been full list available, I would never have picked up a Bible for many more years.

What I decided to do back in about 1981 was go to a large bookshop in Northampton and read a simple passage (first 16 verses from John Chapter 3) out of about 12 Bibles. There was one version that was so simple and had pictures and was called "The Good News Bible" And there was another that presents the Bible like a newspaper with lots of mocked-up photos, which I rather liked.

I believe the Good News version of Bible is for a reading age of 8. My favourite now is KJV (or AV - Authorised Version) which is a reading age of 12, but has the most memorable language by far. Not quite as hard to follow as Shakespeare or Milton, but quite hard. Rumours are that Shakespeare was one of the 54 contributors who put KJV together at behest of old King James the First himself.

However, if I struggle with a passage in KJV, I often revert to other simpler versions (including Good News and NIV) to get a better understanding. And also now have a few Bible commentaries to help my rather limited understanding (favourite an old C of E cleric from Shropshire/Flintshire borders called Rev Matthew Henry)

Welsh Bible was translated from original Greek by Bishop William Morgan about 1588 (26 years before English language KJV). Before that, few churches had an English language Bible or a Welsh language Bible. They seem to have struggled with a Latin translation of the Greek, explained by a well-educated priest in language they were familiar with. You can see from baptisms, marriages and burials that Latin was the language of the church till relatively recent times. :-)

Good morning everyone :-)


I found yesterday's words very thought provoking too Susan. If you google, you will find that there are many ways of reading/listening to the bible in many different versions - including audio books. I do hope you find something which is helpful to you.

As I usually speak from my Anglican perspective, I looked into which version of the bible the C. of E. recommend. Most of the information given is for public worship and, no doubt because we are the state church and guided by legislation, that is fair enough.

It was interesting to read the criteria as to which versions of Scripture are judged suitable for reading in church during the course of public worship :

Faithfulness in translating the Hebrew or Greek

Resonance with the language of prayer used in the particular authorized service

Suitability for reading aloud in a public gathering

Use of familiar language in well-known quotations or figures of speech

Familiarity to the listener

Intelligibility to the listener

Appropriateness to the linguistic register of the particular congregation


The versions recommended are:

The Authorised Version (King James)
The Revised Standard Version (RSV)
The New International Version (NIV)
The New Jerusalem Bible (NJB)
The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
The Revised English Bible (REB)
The English Standard Version (ESV)


I did some homework and discovered that, at our church, we use the NRSV. :-)


The C. of E. and, I think, our Roman Catholic friends, have set readings for each Sunday and follow a pattern throughout the year.


And on that note.......the following verses are more than apt! :-) :-)


My Bible

I like to read my Bible,
When I go to bed each night;
I like to read a chapter through,
Before I turn off my light.

But some nights when I'm tired,
And can no longer see to read,
I just hold my Bible in my hands,
It seems that's all I need.

Its nearness and its closeness,
Grant wondrous dreams to me.
I can visualize my Lord,
As a youth at Galilee.

I see Jonah, I see Noah,
I see Peter, even Paul.
And I feel truly blest some nights,
To see the Fairest One of All.

My heart goes out to poor, rich Job,
As I hear his plaintive pleas.
I am hurting right there with him,
Oh, God, do help us, please!

Just holding onto that dear Book,
Allows me special powers.
I've traveled to Jerusalem,
I've seen the Babel Towers.

I've traveled to both gardens,
Sometimes they're intertwined.
I've seen the place where Jesus wept,
And where Satan snatched mankind.

I saw Jesus in His swaddling clothes,
I saw that wondrous star;
I shed tears for Him at Calvary,
When I saw His body marred.

On those nights I'm over-tired,
And only want to rest,
And do not want to read or think,
That's when holding's at its best.

For then the sense of calm I get,
Slows down my racing mind.
And I deeply sigh in my relief,
To the welcome peace I find.

When sad, I lay my tearful cheek,
Against my Bible's cover.
And I sense a sweet caress,
More gentle than a lover's.

If I am chilled, it warms my hands,
My heart seems warmer, too.
My twisted fingers straighten out,
They truly feel renewed.

If my head is throbbing,
From the tasks I did that day,
I hold my Bible to my brow,
The ache soon goes away.

I get a warmth or energy,
When something seems to flow.
Between my body and my Book,
I know that this is so.

All I do is hold the Book,
No need to turn a leaf;
I get a message straight from God,
And receive Divine Relief.

If over time my vision dims,
And I can no longer look,
I'll still caress it with my hand,
I'll not give up my Book.

And, of all the years I have survived,
And, of all the books I've read,
My Bible is the only book,
I'll want at my death bed.

~ Virginia Ellis ~



Lovely thoughts..........Cx :-)

Sheesh Cynthia.....I now feel so guilty, but it put a thought into my head.

I used to read the bible most days but not so these last few years. my concentration with words became unfortunately lacking although I love books. The kindle has made reading easier for me but I mostly listen to audio books as it doesn't involve the concentration on the written page that books do......anyway, my point is.....I have just had a thought and will shortly take a look.....I wonder if they do a decent audio version of the bible....( no I am not going blind lol.....just can't concentrate on a written page as much as I could)

John....you have just reminded me of my Sunday school days when I loved to go to as many of them as I could fit in the day, just to listen to the wonderful stories.

There was one time when I had to stay with my step gran in London. I found out where the nearest Sunday school was ( I think I was 5 ) then came back and asked my step gran if she could give me twopence for the plate......well! To say she was not pleased would be an understatement but the gist of it was that she wasn't going to waste her money by giving it to any Sunday school......I was very upset and missed the service because I was too embarrassed to go without plate money.....funny what one remembers when the memory is jogged......I'm afraid we never did get on from that day :-(

If you think of price of a season ticket for a top football team, or a visit to pictures or theatre every week, our offerings can be pretty small.

And not sure if you all agree - but we usually (aloways in my case) get a lot more pleasure from our church services than any of those.

One of my memories of 25 years ago was helping our Minister with weddings on Shropshire/Flintshier border. The couple would come in and talk about the hymns they wanted and readings and try to haggle down his fee of £30. I would put a plate at the back of the packed church on the Saturday after the service and there would be £5 worth of copper in it at best. They would pay a fee for the choir and organist but it would still be less than £100 total receipts for church.

They would often all then light up outside, spend a fortune on photos and go on to the local Country Club where we lived. And the bill for the reception would well exceed £10,000.

And many these days just get the Registrar to come along to the Country Club which is now registered for weddings. Another bit of tradition being lost - all for sake of a few £20 notes.

Another late pop-in but all very interesting and Cynthia your "wittering" was a joy to read. Thank you everyone.

Good morning, Cynthia, kandj, Emma, Dermot and many others who look in :-D :-D

Was out all day yesterday and get very tired with 6 hours of driving plus boring business-type meetings these days (old age doesn't come by itself - ni ddaw henaint are ei hun). Wanted to comment on 3.16 in your post yesterday morning, Cynthia. Presumably that famous verse from John 3:16. Very clever and very apt.

As far as intelligence is concerned, I like to think I can spot intelligence. Bertrand Russell was very intelligent, so was Jacob Bronowski, so is Shirley Williams, so was Karl Marx - and Sir Humphrey in "Yes, Minister" ;-). But to my mind the most intelligent ever was the apostle Paul. I know many don't think he wrote Hebrews. But I think he did. The style is vastly different - but I hold that a man of Paul's brilliance could address Jews and Gentiles in a very different way. And with totally different language and a totally different style.

If you read Ephesians (written mainly to Greeks or Gentiles), Romans and Hebrews and remember that Paul was an ace student under Gamaliel, you may see some force in what I am saying. Each time I read Paul, I am more and more impressed with the careful and logical way he builds up his propositions. A really great man - and only 3 cubits (4'6") :-) :-)

Good morning and thank you Emma and Dermot......... :-)


I found this and thought it interesting.....not exactly a prayer, but certainly food for thought :

Isn't it Funny

Funny how a £20.00 note looks so big when
you take it to church, but so small when you
take it to the store.

Funny how big an hour serving God looks and
how small 60 minutes are when spent
watching television, playing sports, sleeping
or taking a lunch break.

Funny how long a couple of hours spent at
church are but how short they are when
watching a good movie.

Funny how we get thrilled when a football
game goes into overtime, but we complain
when a sermon is longer than the regular
time.

Funny how laborious it is to read a chapter in
the Bible and how easy it is to read 200-300
pages of a best selling novel.

Funny how we believe what newspapers say,
but question what the Bible says.

Funny how people scramble to get a front
seat at a concert, but scramble to get a
back seat at the church service.

Funny how we look forward to that big date
on Friday night, but complain about getting
up for church on Sunday morning.

Funny how we call God our Father and Jesus
our brother, but find it hard to introduce
them to our family.

Funny how small our sins seem, but how big
their sins are.

Funny how we demand justice for others, but
expect mercy from God.

Funny how much difficulty some have learning
the gospel well enough to tell others, but
how simple it is to understand and explain the
latest gossip about someone else.

Funny how we can’t think of anything to say
when we pray, but don’t have any difficulty
thinking of things to talk about to a friend.

Funny how we are so quick to take directions
from a total stranger when we are lost, but
are hesitant to take God’s direction for our
lives.

Funny how people want God to answer their
prayers, but refuse to listen to His counsel.

Funny how people think they are going to
Heaven but don’t think there is a Hell.

Funny how it is okay to blame God for evil
and suffering in the world, but it is not
necessary to thank Him for what is good and
pleasant.

Funny how when something goes wrong, we
cry, “Lord, why me?” but when something
goes right, we think, “Hey, it must be me!”

Or wait…maybe all this isn’t so “funny” after all.

- L.M. Myers


It certainly made ME think. Have a good day....Cx :-)

Quote by Morrie Schwartz

The little things, I can obey.
But the big things - how we think,
what we value - those you must choose yourself.
You can't let anyone - or any society - determine
those for you.

Have a good day all. Emma :-)

'There is a crass assumption that believers are essentially dim-witted, despite the fact that intelligence shows itself among believers and non-believers in equal measure'.

(Letters - Irish Independent. 19.11.13).

Good morning all..........a hug was a lovely way to end the day.


The Salvation Army played a huge part in my young life. My parents used to go what was called 'pub booming' - going into pubs and selling the War Cry and my mum used to tell me of how she would sell it on the streets, with me in my pram beside her!

Apparently, when I was born - in a SA home in Manchester - as soon I was was delivered, I was lifted up and a prayer was said that 'she may be of use in His service'. I only found that out shortly before my mum died and I hope that I have fulfilled at least some of that prayer.

I still have some mementoes of my parents' time as officers : the small SA emblem flags which were given to newly trained officers : the certificates to show that they had passed their training exams but, most interestingly of all, I have my father's diaries from 1934 when he was a very new young officer in Kent.

He was a meticulous diary keeper and tells about where he was billeted, what his diet was, whom he visited and how every service went. Even the weather for the day comes into it . I've learned of how he and my mother - who was serving a different corps - would cycle to meet up with each other.

During the war, they ran the SA's mobile Red Shield canteens and were sent to various places to care for the troops and were involved in looking after those who returned from Dunkirk.

One of my mum's dearest wishes, was to see me wearing a Salvation Army bonnet but it was not to be. Whilst she wore her uniform with immense pride - the uniforms are meant to identify someone who can be called upon to discover more about the Christian faith - my father made the decision to leave the SA and serve as a Minister in the then Congregational church. He remained so until his death and my mother who, by then, was wheelchair bound, came to live in an Anglican household and worshipped with us each Sunday. :-)


Anyway, I must stop wittering. I thought a smile would be good today :-)


The Old 3:16

We're on a one-track Christian train,
It's numbered 3:16;
Jesus is the Engineer,
And He runs one "mean machine."

He takes it up and down the hills,
And around the sharpest curves;
He regulates the speed just right,
It never even swerves.

He takes this train through valleys deep,
As prudently He steers;
We're blessed He's at the throttle, folks,
And is Chief Engineer.

When this train climbs mountain peaks,
That nearly touch the sky ...
He blows its whistle loud and clear,
No need to question why.

This Christian train spans prairies, too.
And when smoothly gliding ‘cross,
We settle back ... enjoy the view,
Knowing Jesus is the Boss.

Sometimes stormy clouds appear
And fog is all about us;
But Jesus keeps us right on track,
No reason to reroute us.

The 3:16's a Local, folks,
It stops in every town;
Anyone can hop on board,
This train is heaven bound.

Passengers can leave the train,
Whenever they so choose;
But why get off the 3:16,
There's just too much to lose.

So keep your ticket in your hand,
Wave to the Engineer;
He'll get you to the Promised Land,
His destination's clear!

~ Virginia Ellis ~

Cx :-)

I once got hold of a small book about Methodism in Halifax. Quite a lot of names, so did many look-up-s for people and hopefully unblocked a couple of dead ends.

One of the strands of Methodism was Primitive ( much poorer and more working class that the main strand, the Wesleyans). But exactly the same in terms of teaching. And who was the Prim Minister in Halifax - a young chap called Booth with a very young family (including son Bramwell). Fascinating to find out how these early branches of Methodism flourished and inter-acted in a place like Halifax. And I think we know that General William Booth (1829-1912) was a very active Christian soldier all his long life.

It says on Wiki he was a Methodist New Connexion Minister in Halifax. It may be my memory or it may be a mistake by the writer of this booklet, but I felt sure the book kept referringt to him as a Primitive Meth Minister. He was converted aged 17 in a Wesleyan chapel in Nottinghamshire.

Thanks very much for your post, Susan wiv :-) :-)

Onward then, ye people
Join our happy throng;
Blend with ours your voices
In the triumph-song:
Glory, laud and honour
Unto Christ the King!
This through countless ages
Men and angels sing.........

:-D :-D :-D

I have great respect for the Salvation Army and their deeds! I agree with everything you have said John.

However plain I like things to be, Cynthia, I must admit I absolutely love the Salvation Army and their uniforms. When I was young in 1950's and staying with my great uncle who had a small hotel in Lancaster, these lovely ladies used to come round selling their newspapers in the crowded public bar - with its stench of beer and thick tobacco smoke. It must have been like descending into hades for them. I thought them so lovely - and brave.

And the best thing in shopping centres at Christmas for me is them and a good church choir singing all the favourites whilst we all try to spend more money than everyone else.

Yes, I think a good communal hug as we end the day is an excellent idea, kandj :-D :-D <3 <3

Sending late night hugs to you all right now.