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Actually I agree This is not your Emma 1851
She is Alfred's wife

Bit confused with the 1851 census. Has Charles Morsman as head, and Emma Smith as sister...making her Emma Morsman, but marriage has Emma Howard. Unless it should be sister in law, making Harriet her sister therefore Harriet Howard.

1861 census - household transcription
Person: SMITH, Alfred
Address: 1, Rope Ground, Rotherhithe
SMITH, Alfred Head Married M 33 1828
Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, Emma Wife Married F 30 1831
Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, Emma Daughter F 10 1851
Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, George Son M 8 1853
Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, Alfred Son M 6 1855
Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, William Son M 3 1858
Bethnal Green
Middlesex

Marriages Dec 1849 (>99%)
Howard Emma Bethnal Gn 2 72
Smith Alfred Rigby Bethnal Green 2 72

1851 census - household transcription
Person: SMITH, Alfred
Address: 1, Norton Street, Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets
MORSMAN, Charles Head Married M 24 1827 Bricklayer
Stoke Hammond
Buckinghamshire VIEW
, Hannah Wife Married F 31 1820
Clerkenwell
Middlesex VIEW
, E Daughter F 4 1847
Shoreditch
Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, Emma Sister Married F 20 1831
Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, Alfred Brother In Law Married M 23 1828 Rope Maker
Bethnal Green
Middlesex

By the way
a skilled profession may stay with someone for life.
Unskillied jobs could be changed. as and when work came along.

Thankyou so much.

Just to let you know I have been writind out all the details from your thread onto my FTM Program. When I have done that I will publish it onto Ancestry so you can see it.
It may take a few days as I am working, Please add that extra info fom your other threads so I can access it easily without having to do the look ups again.

LadyKira, this one is still bugging me.

Name: Elizabeth Smith
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 10 May 1867
Father's Name: Henry Smith
Mother's Name: Eliza Smith
Parish: St Barnabas, Homerton
Borough: Hackney
County: Middlesex

Address & Brook street as with Elizabeth above

Elizabeth (Lizzie)(Cason) was born 1865.
I could understand the earlier one dying and then the next daughter being called Elizabeth, but not the other way around. I have confirmed my 7 living children, so if there was another Elizabeth, then she must have died before 1911 as well.

Lizzie is recorded born 1865 or 1866 in different records, so I am wondering if someone has seen the different years and added another Elizabeth, and made it 1867?

Also, could there have been an Elizabeth born 1865, and died, then a 2nd Elizabeth (which is Lizzie) born. But somewhere the birthyear of Lizzie is incorrect, and she should be 1867?

Based on the 1911 census where Henry listed 14 children born, 7 living, 7 died.
I have living at the time..
Eliza (Fish)
Harriett (Town)
Elizabeth (Lizzie Cason)
Alice (Coomber)
Alfred
John
Henry

Children to have died before 1911
Frederick
George
Emma
Caroline

That leaves 3 more children to find, but I can't seem to find them. I know the Middlesex parish records aren't up to date for that period unfortunately.
Any ideas where to search or if anyone can help please.

I think Elizabeth does look like a second wife.
Remember census transcriptions are not perfect.
1841 does not give relationships.

East dereham is in the Mitford and Launditch Registration District.

I would like to thank you all again for your great work.
It would appear Ely Place is the 'place'.
I have found another member with my relatives, and apart from a year or 2 discrepency, everything fits.
So many new names to add.

I am looking seriously into the Ely Place records as good possibilities.
There is something in the 1841 and 51 census' that may hold a clue.
Frederick is listed as born 1801 in both. Elizabeth as aged 25 and 35.
I have found a marriage for them in Mar 1858...ties in nicely with Henry's birth in 1861.
BUT...Frederick must have been married previously as you will see in 1841, William is listed as SMITH aged 20, and Alfred also a Smith aged 13. Impossible for Elizabeth to have been their mother. Henry is 6 months.
In 1851 we see Eliza Smith aged 14, born about 1837/38, but she isn't in the 1841 census. Was she born out of wedlock? Maybe not listed because she may have been "hidden"??? Or perhaps Elizabeth was pregnant with her before she married Frederick.
This may be the clue needed if I can find where she was in 1841. As well as interesting to find out who William and Alfred's mother was.

hold on
frederick 1866 is the son of fredericks brother john and wife sarah

This is Henry's brother

1871 census - household transcription
Person: SMITH, Sarah
Address: Princess Rd, Hackney
SMITH, John Head M 28 1843 Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, Sarah Wife F 31 1840 Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, David Son M 4 1867 Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, Elizth Daughter F 2 1869 Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, Sarah Daughter F 0 1871 Middlesex

1881 census - household transcription
Person: SMITH, Sarah
Address: 27, Crozier Ter, Hackney
SMITH, John Head Married M 36 1845 Rope Maker
Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, Sarah Wife Married F 46 1835 Wife
Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, David Son Single M 14 1867 Scholar
Homerton
Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 12 1869 Scholar
Homerton
Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, Sarah Daughter Single F 11 1870 Scholar
Homerton
Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, Florence Daughter Single F 8 1873 Scholar
Homerton
Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, John Son Single M 7 1874 Scholar
Homerton
Middlesex

1891 census - household transcription
Person: SMITH, John
Address: 6, Nesbit Street, Hackney
SMITH, John Head Married M 50 1841 Rope Maker
Bethnal Green
London VIEW
SMITH, Sarah Wife Married F 53 1838 Dressmaker
Cambridge Heath
London VIEW
SMITH, David Son Single M 24 1867 Ropemaker
Homerton
London VIEW
SMITH, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 23 1868 Laundress
Homerton
London VIEW
SMITH, Florence Daughter Single F 19 1872 Boot Fitter
Homerton
London

1901 census - household transcription
Person: SMITH, John
Address: 25, Daniel Street, Bethnal Green
NEEDHAM, John Head Married M 33 1868 Cooper
Finsbury
London VIEW
NEEDHAM, Sarah Wife Married F 31 1870
Spitalfields
London VIEW
NEEDHAM, John Son M 10 1891
Paralysis From Birth Bethnal Green
London VIEW
NEEDHAM, Ernest Son M 9 1892
Bethnal Green
London VIEW
NEEDHAM, Joseph Son M 7 1894
Bethnal Green
London VIEW
NEEDHAM, George Son M 5 1896
Bethnal Green
London VIEW
NEEDHAM, William Son M 3 1898
Bethnal Green
London VIEW
NEEDHAM, Esther Daughter F 1 1900
Bethnal Green
London VIEW
SMITH, John Uncle M 60 1841 Rope Spinner
Bethnal Green
London

I suspect uncle should read father in law

No Frederick in the 1891 census either. Again, could he have died?
So far I have confirmed 7 children. Another 7 to find.
I have 5 confirmed living at the time, so we need 2 more living, and 7 that had died. Frederick seems very likely, especially as Eliza would have been 43 when she gave birth, and possibly 2 Fredericks. We will have to consider a Harriet in 1867 that died also. We know Caroline and Emma died in 1871.

Name: Ada Lizzie Smith
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 4 Feb 1881
Father's Name: John Smith
Mother's Name: Sarah Smith
Parish: St Barnabas, Homerton
Borough: Hackney
County: Middlesex
16 sedgewick street
dob 1 april
father mason
not sure about this one as occupation is wrong

There is no Frederick 1866 in the 1871 census, we have to presume he died also when young.
Frederick 1884 seems a bit too late. Eliza would have been 43 years old, but I will take a look.

Name: Sarah Smith
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 3 Jul 1870
Father's Name: John Smith
Mother's Name: Sarah Smith
Parish: St Barnabas, Homerton
Borough: Hackney
County: Middlesex
20 elizabeth sreet homerton
father ropemaker

Name: Frederick Smith
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 11 Mar 1866
Father's Name: John Smith
Mother's Name: Sarah Smith
Parish: St Barnabas, Homerton
Borough: Hackney
County: Middlesex
7 Brook Street
father is ropemaker

Name: Frederick John Smith
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 6 Apr 1884
Father's Name: Henry Smith
Mother's Name: Eliza Smith
Parish: St Barnabas, Homerton
Borough: Hackney
County: Middlesex
Address 52 ***brook street
father general dealer
born march 13 looks like 1882?

Name: Eliza Smith
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 3 Oct 1880
Father's Name: Henry Smith
Mother's Name: Eliza Smith
Parish: St Barnabas, Homerton
Borough: Hackney
County: Middlesex
Birth sept 9th 1980
52 brook Street
father is a shopkeeper