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My great grandparents William Hyde and Fanny Cox married 25 December 1886 at St Thomas Kidderminster.

In 1891 they are with my gran

Name: William Hyde
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Fanny Hyde
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham
Civil parish: Kings Norton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas in the Moore
Town: Balsall Heath
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Street Address: 4 Poplar Terrace Balsall Heath King's Norton
Registration district: Kings Norton
Sub-registration district: Kings Norton
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2352
Folio: 9
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
William Hyde 36
Fanny Hyde 25
May Hyde 6/12

The actual image for my gran says 2 + 6 months which fits with her borth date of 04 September 1888.

This is the family in 1901

Name: William Hyde
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil parish: Northfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Selly Oak St Mary
County/Island: Worcestershire
Condition as to marriage: Appears to say Widower
Registration district: Kings Norton
Sub-registration district: Kings Norton
ED, institution, or vessel: 38
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 156
Piece: 2808
Folio: 46
Page Number: 28
Household Members:
Name Age
William Hyde 46
Mary Hyde 12
William E Hyde 5

And then in 1911 Fanny is resurrected!

Name: William Hyde
Age in 1911: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Briningham, Wannock
Civil parish: Newport
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: 44 Witham St Newport Mon
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 24
Estimated Marriage Year: 1887
Occupation: Anni Drawer
Registration district: Newport
Registration District Number: 587
Sub-registration district: Newport
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Household schedule number: 317
Piece: 31984
Household Members:
Name Age
William Hyde 53
Fanny Hyde 41
Fray Conding 23
William Hyde 16
Harry Hyde 8

I have recently found a "5 generations photograph" that appeared in a local paper in 1953 where the oldest person is Mrs F.J. Hyde. I had always assumed she was named Fanny at birth (had a GRO reference that matched this) but prompted by this photo and the fact that my grandfather always called her Frances, I sent for a certificate for Frances Jane Cox and it was indeed her; born 20 July 1865.

When she died later that year in 1953, it was recorded as Frances J Hyde.

SO MY QUESTION IS....can anyone find her in 1901 as either Fanny or Frances Hyde? She certainly wasn't deceased as William appears to suggest ;-)

Where was May born please?
Its concievable that he was a widow and re-married - another Francis/Fanny or similar. Have you checked Harrys birth cert for MMN?

Only thing Penny, I realise she has dropped a few years from her age but the birth place for Fanny is the same 1891 &1911

Jude, they lost 3 children do you have any idea of their identities? Just wonder if she was in hospital in 1901 and just listed under her initial.

are we given to assume that dau May has married by 191, and beome Conding?

If so, the number of children born/living is squew-whiff anyway

1911
although May is shown on the 1911 with her parents she has been put on in error ( crossed out)

Condition /
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where born Image
HYDE, William Head Married M 53 1858 Wire Drawer Warwick Birmingham VIEW
HYDE, Fanny Wife Married24 years F 41 1870 House Duties Stourport VIEW
HYDE, William Son Single M 16 1895 Wire Drawer Warwick Birmingham VIEW
HYDE, Harry Son Single M 8 1903 School Mon Newport VIEW
RG number: RG14
Piece: 31984
Reference: RG14PN31984 RG78PN1840 RD587 SD2 ED25 SN317
Registration District: Newport
Sub District: Newport
Enumeration District: 25
Parish: Newport
Address: 44 Witham Street Newport Mon
County: Monmouthshire



Regards Vera

I cannot find a marriage for May with the surname Conding....although the image of that name isn't clear... co?ding

Regards Vera

Hi everyone - here at last! Had to go and pick my new specs up!!

May was actually Clara May (although she was always known as May in her family apparently) - yes she married my grandad Cording in 1909 and is living in Dewstow Street Newport with her mother-in-law.

If you look at the image of the 1911 census it's actually five children of whom three are still living - so two died. Yes that was my idea she was in hospital somewhere. It isdefinitely the same Fanny all the way as the 1911 census shows they had been married 24 years.

Off to watch the footie now......

Jude

Penny, to dispel any doubts that it is the same person in 1891 and 1911...the five generations are Fanny with (Clara) May Cording her daughter, with Gertrude May, her daughter, with Joan her daughter and Paul her son.

Ok I am making a last stab at finding her in 1901.....

Since January 2013 I have made small inroads (very small inroads)

In 1911 - 5 children of which 3 are living

The three living were Clara May, William and Harry

Have found a baptism and death for Harriet in 1893 in Balsall Heath

So my very best guess is she was in hospital giving birth to a child that died in 1901.

She was born Frances Jane and birth and death are in that name..marriage as Fanny and the censuses I HAVE found all Fanny....

Jude

Ok I am making a last stab at finding her in 1901.....

Since January 2013 I have made small inroads (very small inroads)

In 1911 - 5 children of which 3 are living

The three living were Clara May, William and Harry

Have found a baptism and death for Harriet in 1893 in Balsall Heath

So my very best guess is she was in hospital giving birth to a child that died in 1901.

She was born Frances Jane and birth and death are in that name..marriage as Fanny and the censuses I HAVE found all Fanny....

Jude

There's this possibility for a child dying in infancy in 1901:

Births Jun 1901 (>99%)
Hyde Albert George King's N. 6c 425


Deaths Sep 1901 (>99%)
Hyde Albert George 0 King's N. 6c 214

The census was taken on 31st March, so if Albert was born on or close to that date, that would fit the theory that Fanny was in hospital.

Ha ha AG - that's the ONLY one that's coming up for me! I might send for the cert.....have done., will update next week but it still doesn't pinpoint her in the census

Jude

Wild stab in the dark -

Maybe she was rushed into hospital on the 31st March, and the hospital didn't have time to update their census record?!
Or perhaps didn't put her on, if they weren't sure if she was going to be staying over that night or not?

Maybe the census enumerator put William down as a widower because he said something about his wife having been rushed to hospital and the baby dying - the enumerator may have got the wrong end of the stick and thought the wife had died.

This might be the birth above


Albert George Hyde
Mother: Minnie Hyde
Father: John Thomas Hyde
Baptism: 28 Apr 1901 - Kings Norton, St Nicolas, Worcestershire

Oh, dear, Jude - hope you haven't wasted your money.

Oh never mind!

Jude

I was going to do a new thread but have trawlwd my threads and found the original posting!

To recap:

Frances Jane Cox (Fanny Cox) married William Evans Hyde at St Thomas in the Moors, Balsall Heath, Worcestershire on Christmas Day 1886

In 1891, they are living at 4 Poplar Terrace Balsall Heath with daughter May aged 2 and a half.
Son William is born there in September 1895.


In 1901 census, William, May and William are living at 78 Dawlish Road Selly Oak. William Senior is shown as the head and is widowed. Also at the same address is a second household of Maria Cox widow aged 32 (from Stourport) and a boarder.


Frances Jane did not die until 1953.
I have found the missing child. George Henry - born 02 October 1901. Birth registered by Fanny with the address 78 Dawlish Road as was his subsequent death three months later.



SO TO THE ORIGINAL POSED QUESTION

So where was she in 1901 at the census held 31 March 1901? And, assuming George Henry was born full term, she was in the early stages of the pregnancy. Which ties in with Argyll Gran's hypothesis
"Maybe she was rushed into hospital on the 31st March, and the hospital didn't have time to update their census record?!"

And who is Maria Cox, widow living at the same address as William and children. I "assume" she is somehow related to William and Fanny.
She is not the widow of either of Frances’ brothers to reach manhood.
And William did not have a sister named Maria.

Any fresh eyes 10 years on greatly appreciated!

Jude

Look for Maria in the previous census, or look for the possible marriage
Registration district for Stourport is Kidderminster
Cox is a very common name - it may be sheer coincidence that she is sharing a dwelling with people who have the same surname

Looking at 1901 image, Maria is first-named - then her boarder, followed by William and the children

Erika...tried that lol!

Have no idea of her maiden name. Searching comes up with a few marriages between Cox and Maria but none of them seem to lead anywhere.

Reason I made a connection (apart from the name Cox) is all that family, both Hydes and Coxes seemed to live in the same streets as each other.

But thanks for looking

Jude

Adding 1921 to the mix.

1921 Census Of England & Wales
44, Witham Street, Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales

Household members (3 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Sex Birth year Age in years Birth place Occupation Employer
William Hyde Head
Male 1855 66 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Wire Drawer Wireworker Guest Keen & Nettlefold Ltd Newport Mon
Fanny Hyde Wife
Female 1868 52 Stourport, Worcestershire, England - -
Harry Hyde Son
Male 1903 18 Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales Cold Roller Ironworker Sheet Mills John Lysaght Ltd Newport