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1841

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MINTON, Michael M 40 1801 Warwickshire VIEW
MINTON, Mary F 30 1811 Ireland VIEW
MINTON, James M 0 (7 months) 1841 Warwickshire VIEW
CLEWIN, Mary F 20 1821 Ireland VIEW
Piece:
1144 Book/Folio:
1/32 Page:
15 Registration District:
Birmingham

Civil Parish:
Birmingham Municipal Borough:
Birmingham Address:
Livery Street, Birmingham County:
Warwickshire

As you say Mary was iliterate then the spelling of her surname has to be questioned, as has been suggested one of her other childrens birth cert may clarify the situation

There is also the possibility her name is actualy Collins or a veriation of that name

I can find no record of a Mary Clewing anywhere on the 1841 census, Could you post the details

There are plenty of Mary Clews and one in lincolnshire on the 1841 census

Roy

As an aside, Vandeleur Smith gets a few mentions in the papers. Most are for wrongdoings but there is also this one.



Publication:Lincolnshire Chronicle

Publication date:Saturday 26 September 1868

SLEAFIELD ATHLETIC SPORTS

Article text:" Huddleston, of Lincoln, proving the winner.—For the Sack Race there were eight or ten entries, the best of whom was Vandeleur Smith.—The Consolation Handicap, 500 yds, was the last race ; was won very cleverly Whittaker. "

and then



Publication:Birmingham Gazette

Publication date:Saturday 13 July 1861

Article text:" Vandeleur Smith (after one month s imprisonment to be sent to reformatory for five years), for stealing lead, the property of Mary Fowler"


and

Publication:Lincolnshire Chronicle

Publication date:Friday 29 May 1868

Article text:"Vandeleur Smith and Frederick Smith, for assaulting the police on tbe 19th inst., at New Sleaford, were each fined £1 and costs. Committed for a month in default."


and




Publication:Stamford Mercury

Publication date:Friday 15 January 1869

Article text:" Vandeleur Smith was charged with being drnnk and riotous at New Sleaford on the 3d inst. Defendant, who is an old offender, was fined 5s and costs."

Mary was not literate Her daughter Augustinas birth certificate with her mothers name of Clewing has been signed with a 'mark'
Thanks everyone for this I will sift through and try to make some snes of it x

Mary's Smiths Grave is in Quarrington Churchyard died 1911 and inscription is ' wife of Edward Smith' early census of Mary Clewing shows her as an Hawker in Birmingham born in Ireland 1841 census Edward Smith was always a tailor and Mary a dressmaker names of children and other aspects point to Mary being a Gipsy

So, Edward Smith didn't marry Mary Bavin after all, but Elizabeth Kirk!

So, it could be that Elizabeth died. There are 3 possible deaths for Elizabeth between 1838 and 1851 (cencus where he is living with Mary)

Deaths Dec 1845 (>99%)
Smith Elizabeth Sleaford 14 305
Deaths Sep 1846 (>99%)
Smith Elizabeth Sleaford 14 431
Deaths Sep 1848 (>99%)
Smith Elizabeth Sleaford 14 349

As MC said earlier, it looks as though you may be obliged to buy a couple of birth certificates, for some of the children, to see who their mother is.

One thing that does bother me is the fact that in 1851 Edward is noted as being a Tailor, but on the 1838 marriage he is just a Labourer. Augustina's marriage record shows Edward's profession as Tailor so 1851 does look to be correct so seems to point to 1838 marriage being another Edward Smith?

Anyone found Edward in 1841?

County Lincolnshire
Place Heckington
Church St Andrew
RegisterNumber 122
MarriageDate 15 May 1848
GroomForename Edward
GroomSurname SMITH
GroomAge
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Labourer
GroomAbode Heckington
BrideForename Mary Ann
BrideSurname WOODS
BrideAge
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Heckington
GroomFatherForename Edward [deceased]
GroomFatherSurname SMITH
GroomFatherOccupation Blacksmith
BrideFatherForename John
BrideFatherSurname WOODS
BrideFatherOccupation Labourer
WitnessOneForename Bridget
WitnessOneSurname REYNOLDS
WitnessTwoForename Robert
WitnessTwoSurname SMITH
Notes
FileNumber 19293

And the 1838 Edward Smith marriage

County Lincolnshire
Place Blankney
Church St Oswald
RegisterNumber6
MarriageDate 16 Dec 1838
GroomForename Edward
GroomSurname SMITH
GroomAge
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Labourer
GroomAbode Metheringham
BrideForename Elizabeth
BrideSurname KIRK
BrideAge
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation Servant
BrideAbode Blankney
GroomFatherForename Isaac
GroomFatherSurname SMITH
GroomFatherOccupation Labourer
BrideFatherForename George
BrideFatherSurname KIRK
BrideFatherOccupation Labourer
WitnessOneForename John
WitnessOneSurname KIRK
WitnessTwoForename John
WitnessTwoSurname BROWN
NotesHe signed X
FileNumber 16690

Marriages Dec 1838
BAVIN Mary Sleaford 14 849
FRANKLIN Thomas Sleaford 14 849
KIRK Elizabeth Sleaford 14 849
KNIGHT Thomas Sleaford 14 849
SMITH Edward Sleaford 14 849
TAYLOR Sarah Sleaford 14 849

Thomas Franklin married Sarah Taylor 22 Oct 1838 also at St Oswald


Roy

County Lincolnshire
Place Blankney
Church St Oswald
RegisterNumber 5
MarriageDate 20 Nov 1838
GroomForename Thomas
GroomSurname KNIGHT
GroomAge
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Joiner
GroomAbode Blankney
BrideForename Mary
BrideSurname BAVIN
BrideAge
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation Servant
BrideAbode Blankney
GroomFatherForename Thomas
GroomFatherSurname KNIGHT
GroomFatherOccupation Joiner
BrideFatherForename William
BrideFatherSurname BAVIN
BrideFatherOccupation Joiner
WitnessOneForename William
WitnessOneSurname BAVIN
WitnessTwoForename John
WitnessTwoSurname BAVIN
Notes
FileNumber 16690

It's possible that Edward married Mary Bavin but she died and he married someone else, also called Mary (Clewing)?

Ancestry links Edward with this marriage?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Edward Smith
Name: Edward Smith
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1848
Registration district: Sleaford
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume Number: 14
Page Number: 1023
Records on Page:
Name
Mary Bee
William Chambers
xxxx Maria Cowling xxxx
Mary Elizabeth Knight
xxxx Edward Smith xxxx
George Vipham
Mary Ann Woods
John Wright

Linked thread:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1337780

Same family in 1851:-

1851 England Census about Edward Smith
Name: Edward Smith
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1822
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Steaford, Lincolnshire, England
[Sleaford]
Civil Parish: Leicester St Margaret
Ecclesiastical parish: Peterborough
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation: Tailor

Registration district: Leicester
Sub-registration district: East Leicester
ED, institution, or vessel: 42
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 49
Piece: 2089
Folio: 144
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Smith 29
Mary Smith 30 born: Boston, Lincolnshire
Vandelieen Smith 5
Georgiana E C Smith 2 born: Oakham, Rutland
Frederic A L Smith 2 Mo born: Leicestershire

.....................

Vandeleur Smith
England and Wales, Birth Registration Index, 1837-1920
Birth Registration 1846 Wellingborough, Northamptonshire, England
..........................................

Georgiana Elizabeth Longmead Smith
England and Wales, Birth Registration Index, 1837-1920
Birth Registration 1848 Oakham, Rutlandshire, England

Georgiana Elizabeth Longmake Smith
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 20 April 1849 Oakham, Rutland, England
residence: Rutland, England
father: Edward Smith
mother: Mary
..............................................

Frederick Augustus Longmate Smith
England and Wales, Birth Registration Index, 1837-1920
Birth Registration 1851 Leicester, Leicestershire, England

for ref:-

1871 England Census about Agnotania Smith
Name: Agnotania Smith
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edward Smith
Mother's name: Mary Smith
Gender: Female
Where born: New Sleaford, Lincolnshire, England
Civil Parish: New Sleaford
Town: New Sleaford
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England
Registration district: Sleaford
Sub-registration district: Sleaford
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 18
Piece: 3350
Folio: 5
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Smith 65
Mary Smith 55 born: Boston, Lincolnshire
Vandebeur Smith 25 born: Wellingborough, Northamptonshire, England
Frederick Smith 20
Pricilla Smith 18
Florance Smith 13
Agnotania Smith 11
John H A Smith 8
Lura Smith 5
Arthur Smith 1

............another child born earlier!

Looking at the birth years of the children there is a big gap from a 1838 marriage to the first child born 1849

Yes this is the family interesting as I have all the other records of them but not this one..... It is interesting because Birmingham is the only other place I have found mary Clewing born in Ireland I believe they may have been gipsies
Thankyou x

Name: Millicent Smith
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1855
Registration district: Leicester
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume: 7a
Page: 181

Name: Priscilla Smith
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1853
Registration district: Leicester
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume: 7a
Page: 160

Is this the family ?

1861 census transcription details for: Back Of 144, Nelson Street West, Birmingham

Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09
Piece: 2130
Folio: 146
Page: 32
Reg. District: Birmingham
Sub District: 1 Lady Wood
Parish: Birmingham
Enum. District: 18
Ecclesiastical District: St Marks
City/Municipal Borough: Birmingham
Address: Back Of 144, Nelson Street West, Birmingham
County: Warwickshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
SMITH, Edward Head Married M 49 1812 Tailor
Sleaford, Lincolnshire
SMITH, Mary Wife Married F 41 1820
Boston, Lincolnshire
SMITH, Georgiana Daughter F 12 1849 Steel Pen Maker
Oakham, Rutland
SMITH, Fredrick Son M 10 1851 Steel Pen Maker
Leicester
SMITH, Prisila Daughter F 8 1853 Scholar
Leicester
SMITH, Millicent Daughter F 5 1856
Leicester
SMITH, Florence Daughter F 4 1857
Leicester
SMITH, Augustina Daughter F 2 1859
Sleaford, Lincolnshire


Mary was born 1820 so would have been 18 at marriage . Could have been a widow but would have married very young

Are you sure you have the right birth cert ?Maybe getting one if the others children's cert would help.

The marriage seems very early

You may have to buy the marriage cert though for clarification

Are you 100% sure that the 1838 marriage is the correct one?

Do you have the birth certificates of any of Augustina's siblings to compare the mother's maiden name on them?

Augustina Elizabeth Longmate Smith born 1859 sleaford I have her birth certificate and her mothers maiden name was Clewing

Maybe the 1838 marriage was a second marriage for Mary?

What was Augustina's name and when and where was she born?