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we have considerable knowledge of our family in Devizes. We knew of Rebecca (Bec) and Alice ( there was also a brother Jack) as there were frequent visits both ways from Tooting and Morden and even on holidays together to Clacton. At sometime I thought they were sisters of my grandmother, Sarah Jane Foote (Withers - previously Hall) judged only by the way my mother treated them.
Looks as though it is going to remain a mystery - but thanks for your help.

Going back to Frederick - yes, he's George & Elizabeth's son:

Frederick G Crouch
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Frederick G Crouch
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1892
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: George Crouch
Mother: Elizabeth Crouch
Birth Place: Devizes, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: St Mary the Virgin
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Baptist and St Mary the Virgin
Town: Devizes
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Registration district: Devizes
Sub-registration district: Devizes
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1927
Folio: 40
Page Number: 31
Household schedule number: 212
Household Members:
Name Age
George Crouch 45
Elizabeth Crouch 44
William K Crouch 17
Ellith M Crouch 13
Frederick G Crouch 9


I still think the Hoffmans were just friends and colleagues of Susannah.

Edward's wife Elizabeth was a Painter:

Elizabeth Painter
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Elizabeth Painter
Registration Year: 1847
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Devizes
Inferred County: Wiltshire
Volume: 8
Page: 627
Records on Page:
Name
Edward Hall
Jane Ovens
Elizabeth Painter
Stephen Sutton

Susannah Hall is a daughter of Edward and presumably a sister of Elizabeth who married George, and therefore an aunt of Emma Lotty. And (haven't researched it yet) Frederick may be the son of George and Elizabeth, and therefore Susannah's nephew as stated on 1911 census:


Susanna Hall
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Susanna Hall
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Edward Hall
Mother's name: Elizabeth Hall
Gender: Female
Where born: Devizes, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: St John
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Registration district: Devizes
Sub-registration district: Devizes
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 68
Piece: 1914
Folio: 36
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Hall 53
Elizabeth Hall 46
Susanna Hall 12
Emma Hall 10
George Hall 10
Sarah I Hall 1

Here's Emma Lotty in 1891:

Emma L Crouch
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Emma L Crouch
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: George Crouch
Mother's name: Elizabeth Crouch
Gender: Female
Where born: Devizes, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Devizes
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Registration district: Devizes
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1600
Folio: 47
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
George Crouch 37
Elizabeth Crouch 34
Emma L Crouch 12
William A Crouch 7
Edith M Crouch 3



Not sure where this is taking me -

but in 1881 Emma Lotty's father George is with a family of Halls:

George Crouch
in the 1881 England Census
Name: George Crouch
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relationship to Head: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Axford, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: Devizes St John
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street address: 16 Bridewell Street
Occupation: Groom (8)
Registration district: Devizes
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2039
Folio: 34
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Hall 64 - head
Betsy Hall 57 - wife
Emma L. Hall 2 - grand-daughter
George Crouch 27


Is Emma L Hall the same person as Emma Lotty Crouch, George's daughter??


Looks like it:

Marriages Jun 1882 (>99%)
CROUCH George Devizes 5a 149
HALL Elizabeth Devizes 5a 149

Susannah Hall
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Susannah Hall
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation to Head: Nurse
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Devizes, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: Roundway
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Town: Roundway
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Devizes
Sub-registration district: Devizes
ED, institution, or vessel: Asylum
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1926
Folio: 175
Page Number: 39
Household schedule number: 1


One of the other nurses listed with Susannah at the asylum is Emma Lotty Crouch, born Devizes c1897.

Without having delved further into things so far -

maybe they were friends and work colleagues of Susannah, and just gave Susannah's nephew the honorary position of their nephew ??

If you don't understand the connection, how do you know that Frederick was their nephew?


Is this Frederick in 1911?

Frederick George Crouch
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Frederick George Crouch
Age in 1911: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1892
Relation to Head: Nephew <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Devizes, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: St James
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street address: 5 Melbourne Place, Devizes, Wilts
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Apprentice Iron Moulder
Registration district: Devizes
Registration District Number: 246
Sub-registration district: Devizes
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Household schedule number: 396
Piece: 11932
Household Members:
Name Age
Susannah Hall 52 - single, Asylum Pensioner Mental Nurse
Frederick George Crouch 19

Many thanks - this my first time of using this service.
At the same time that they were living in Tooting they were near their nephew Frederick Crouch who was originally born in Devizes - I have been struggling to understand to the connection.My Mother (maiden name was Foote) and her family came from Devizes a was cousin to Frederick Crouch.
I just do not seem able to find any logical information that would shed light on the relationships.

Is thia another child? Father a tailor, 26 Brown's Lane.

Henry George Hoffman

in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Record Image View

Name: Henry George Hoffman
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 24 Jan 1864
Father's name: David Hoffman
Mother's name: Sarah Hoffman
Parish or Poor Law Union: Spitalfields Christ Church with St Mary and St Stephen
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Rebecca Hoffmann

in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Record Image View

Name: Rebecca Hoffmann
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 18 Mar 1860
Father's name: David Hoffmann
Mother's name: Sarah Hoffmann
Parish or Poor Law Union: Spitalfields Christ Church with St Mary and St Stephen
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Aged 3 1/2 years, 9 Crispin St,

Same day Rosa Hoffman changed to Rosetta, no age given, same address.

Same month, 6 March David Hoffman son of Jacob & Anna, aged 45, tailor, 9 Crispin St.

Davis Hoffmann

in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Record Image View

Name: Davis Hoffmann
Estimated birth year: abt 1815
Age: 45
Spouse: Sarah Kirwan
Spouse Age: 28
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 5 Mar 1860
Parish: Christ Church with St Mary and St Stephen, Spitalfields
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Jacob Hoffmann
Spouse Father: Thomas Kirwan
Register Type: Parish Register

Davis, bachelor, tailor, 9 Crispin St., father schoolmaster.
Sarah, spinster, 9 Crispin St., father tailor.

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
9, Plumbers Row, Hamlet Mile End Old Town, Mile End Old Town, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
David Hoffman Head Married Male 46 1815 Tailor Essex, England
Transcription
Sarah Hoffman Wife Married Female 28 1833 Tailoress Poland (Russia)
Transcription
Rebecca Hoffman Daughter Unmarried Male 5 1856 Scholar -
Transcription
Rosa Hoffman Daughter Unmarried Female 2 1859 Scholar -

image does not say essex england for david

Marriages Mar 1860 (>99%)
Anderson Helen Whitechapel 1c 606
Hoffmann Davis Whitechapel 1c 606
Kirwan Sarah Whitechapel 1c 606
Rode Hans Christian Waldemar Whitechapel 1c 606

1881 census. Is in a girls school

Alice Hoffman
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relationship to Head: Scholar
Gender: Female
Where born: Mile End New Town, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Southwark St George Martyr
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: King Edward Schools St Georges Road
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: London Road
ED, institution, or vessel: King Edward Schools
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 531
Folio: 100
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Alice Laura Jane King 15
Etc

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Yeates Court, St Clement Danes, Strand, London, England

David Hoffman Head - Male Occ Tailor 58 1813 - Russia
Rebecca Hoffman Daughter - Female 14 1857 - Middlesex, England

HOFFMAN, ALICE KIRWAN Order
GRO Reference: 1866 J Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 384

Alice Hoffman
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 7 Mar 1866
Baptism Date: 30 Dec 1866
Baptism Place: Spitalfields Christ Church,Stepney,London,England
Father: David Hoffman
Mother: Sarah
FHL Film Number: 592621, 592622, 592623

No image

Another record
Alice Hoffman
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 30 Dec 1866
Father's name: David Hoffman occ tailor
Mother's name: Sarah Hoffman
Parish or Poor Law Union: Spitalfields Christ Church with St Mary and St Stephen
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers
home address 54 Church Street Mile End new town

Rebecca Hoffman
Birth Date: abt 1858
Date of Registration: Mar 1947
Age at Death: 89
Registration district: Battersea
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5c
Page: 77

Probate
Rebecca Hoffman
Death Date: 16 Mar 1947
Death Place: London, England
Probate Date: 30 May 1947
Registry: London, England

Of 8 Southcroft road Tooting . Spinster who died 16 mar 1947 At St Johns Hospital
South Battersea
Admin 30 may to Arthur Ralph Jackson attorney solicitor of John Walters
Effects £85 .19. 10d

Both still single

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Name: Rebecca Hoffman
Age in 1911: 54
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil Parish: Wandsworth
Search Photos: Search for 'Wandsworth' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 240A Mitcham Rd S W
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: ASYLUM PENSIONER
Registration district: Wandsworth
Registration District Number: 26
Sub-registration district: Streatham
ED, institution, or vessel: 72
Piece: 2357
Household Members:
Name Age
Rebecca Hoffman 54
Alice Hoffman 44 occ mental nurse

Born in London of German parentage