Genealogy Chat

I'm trying to obtain hard copy certificates of my ancestors which will put the finishing touches to my attempts to finalize my MARTIN FAMILY TREE 1600-2014

I have some details of births, marriages and deaths of my ancestors but I don't know exactly who I can get the certificates from. Is there a central point that I can contact?

Researching Martin family from Durham/Northumberland 1660's+, West Riding of Yorkshire 1680-1740's, Nottinghamshire 1800's, Derbyshire 1840's , London 1890's and Essex 1900's.

How have you researched without buying any??!

If it's just births, deaths, marriages within ENGLAND & WALES (from 1837), you can buy them here:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Make you sure have the index ref (vol & page number)

Original Parish Marriage entries are available on some sites for some areas - could save you some cash.

As Gritty said, how have you researched without buying any? With such a common name, it would be very easy to follow the wrong line. Have done it myself and with a very unusual name.

I see you have family in Durham/Nothumberland. familysearch has images of parish records for these areas. You do have to page through lots of pages but some of them (especially the earlier ones) contain lots of info.

Oh yes, Potty's right- Ancestry has lots of originals on-line now. If you don't have access it may be worth asking someone on here to look to see if they are available first.

:)

Gritty & Potty are basically correct, although they mis-state some details.
Gritty's GRO URL doesn't work for the UK post-1837, just England & Wales.
The records FS has for Northumberland/Durham aren't parish registers, but Bishop's Transcripts (which are the church's own back-up records, and are supposed to be identical copies of the parish registers). These records, along with parish registers, are at least partly indexed on FMP:
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/

Parish registers are mostly deposited in some archive, usually the county records office - most of these have been filmed, and some films are online via Ancestry, FS or FMP. Sometimes, the archive puts them online, and maybe charges to view them - e.g.,
http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/EssexAncestors.aspx

Check out FS:
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND
If you get a hit, and it's not clear where the hit came from, do a catalog search on the film # they cite - it will say where the record was at the time it was filmed.

Thanks- now corrected.

In case it isn't absolutely clear from the above ........................


registration of bmds began in England and Wales on July 1st 1837, and in Scotland in 1855.


There are no certificates available before those dates.


Before 1837 in England and Wales, you have to rely on Parish Registers for the actual baptism, marriage and burial.


Note that baptism and burial records in Parish Registers do not necessarily give the date of birth or death


Nor do baptisms often show the mother's name, or surname if her forename is mentioned.

Marriage entries often do not show the names of fathers, or even witnesses.

Yes, the images on familysearch for Durham/Northumerland are for Bishop's Transcripts; there are also Marriage Allegations (which sometimes give more info than the marriage record).

Well folks, thanks for the info and so here is where I'm at:
JOHN BURTON (BAROTN) MARTIN
bc 1813 poss in Nottingham - PROBLEM!!!
baptized 21 Aug 1813 St Peters Nottingham (Library Microfische Records)
Marriage details - no problem. Death details - no problem
his father was ......
JAMES MARTIN
bc 1773 poss in Nottingham ????
baptized Nov 1773 Nottingham
married Mary Henshaw 9 Jan 1798 (Library Microfische Records) ????
Death details - no problems.
his father was......
JOHN MARTIN
bc 1742 and baptised 5 Nov 1742 (5 Dec??? per Ancestry) St Giles Knottingley
married Ann Wood 25 Sep 1768 St Giles Knottingley, Pontefract ????
buried c 1808 Nottingham????
his father was......
WILLIAM MARTIN
bc 1717 ????
baptized 1 Dec 1717 St Giles, Pontefract
married Mary Jefferson 8 Dec 1741 St Mary's, Gate Helmsley
Died 1799 in Brotherton

THE CRUNCH PART IS THAT I WANT SOME SORT OF DOCUMENT, BE IT A COPY OF B, M OR D CERTS OR COPIES OF WHATEVER CHURCH DOCUMENTS AVAILABLE.

I still have to deal with earlier ancestors, John 1687 - c 1743 (wife Mary Salkeld 1692-1724), his father - Robert Martin c 1661- 1737 (wife Alizes?? Bartram c 1655-NK) and finally his father Robert Martin c 1630 - ? (wife Mary Lowther 1633 - ?)

I know its a lot to ask, but right now, its important l finalise the tree asp.

Thanks folks, thanks in advance for any help you can give.

Rondog


It is very important that we know where you have already looked to find the information that you have .............

............ otherwise we are going to waste time duplicating your research.


But I do have to say that you have probably found all the information that there is to be found

Very few baptisms actually mentioned the date of birth especially the early ones, same goes for date of death.... But would imagine burials took place very soon after death, as they wouldn't have wanted them hanging around too long.

County Nottinghamshire
Place Nottingham
Church St Peter
RegisterNumber
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 21 Aug 1813
Forename John Burton
Sex M
FatherForename James
MotherForename Mary
FatherSurname MARTIN
MotherSurname
Abode Peter Gate
FatherOccupation Hosier

Chris :)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

(from above link, if any use)

but, Chris, I think that Rondog is wanting more than that ......................


and I don't think there is any other source from which he could get the equivalent of the bmd certificate that did not become law until July 1 1837

You're right SylviainCanada.
I'm actually wanting copies of the church documents if that's at all possible.

Someone gave me a copy of the entry of the bans of John M and Ann Wood read on 6th, 13th and 20th November 1768 which throws out the info l get from GR that they were married on 25th September 1768 (2months earlier than the ban?? That's odd, incidentally, the page shows
AncestryLibrary.com - West Yorkshire, England, baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1512-1812 (Is it possible that Ancestry have better info and perhaps I should "spend a few bob" and register with them. What dya think ladies?)

James 1773 md Mary Henshaw Nottingham on 9 Jan 1798 after banns but GR don't record their marriage.

GR do show marriages of William M and Mary Jefferson 8 Dec 1741, John M and Mary Salkeld 4 Sep 1712, Robert M and Alizes Bartram 4 Sep 1712 (no bride quoted) and finally Robert M married Mary Lowther 1655 (no actual date).

This leaves me with a few questions l need to answer. I don't really know how best to tackle them. I really am struggling and wonder how to get HARD COPIES of bmd records.
Ron
ps. Sorry I didn't make it absolutely clear what I am after, perhaps now, I've made it clear. (Thanks for you help so far, just hope you can help me just a little bit more.)

oh yes ..........

ancestry Parish Records are better,


you could also try looking at the free site run by the LDS (Mormons)


as long as you stick to Records, and don't go into Collections which often show information posted by LDS members and patently untrue, or made to fit the facts :-)


https://familysearch.org/search


also look on the Online Parish Clerks, to see is your county has got any OPC records ............ only a few counties are well covered, but some, Lancashire for example, are excellent


http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/online_parish_clerk

from ancestry .............


West Yorkshire, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1512-1812 about John Martin

Name: John Martin
Event Date: 5 Dec 1742
Event Type: Baptism
Parish: Knottingley, St Botolph
Father's Name: William Martin


Looking at the image of this record, it is extremely confusing!

The months written in the left hand margin go as follows .............

May
June
July
Aug
7ber
8ber
9ber
0ber <<<<<<< the page was apparently torn here, and it could well have been 10ber, because there is a little mark obvious just to the left of the top of the 0

then the next month is Januy



Now ................ you do have to remember that the English calendar changed in the mid-18th century .......... in September 1752 to be precise

In addition to omitting 11 days in September that year, the date of the New Year was also changed.

Prior to 1752, the New Year began on 25 March, also known as Lady Day

For example, in England, the day after 24 March 1642 was 25 March 1643. The Act changed this, so that the day after 31 December 1751 was 1 January 1752. As a consequence, 1751 was a short year - it ran only from 25 March to 31 December.


This could explain the 7ber, 8ber, etc ........... where we now see the month after August to be September, the 8th month



for a fuller explanation, see

http://www.adsb.co.uk/date_and_time/calendar_reform_1752/

from ancestry


??????


England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 about John Martin

Name: John Martin
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 29 Nov 1768
Marriage Place: Pontefract,York,England
Spouse: Ann Wood
FHL Film Number: 990759




but what made you pick that one?


there is also this marriage of a John Martin to an Ann, on the same date but in York!


England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 about John Martin

Name: John Martin
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 29 Nov 1768
Marriage Place: Saint Maurice,York,York,England
Spouse: Ann Mollonack
FHL Film Number: 990900


also seen as ......

England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940 about John Martin

Name: John Martin
Gender: Male
Spouse's Name: Ann Molynenk
Marriage Date: 29 Nov 1768
Marriage Place: York, Yorkshire, England





all England Select Marriages records on ancestry were actually acquired by them from that family search site ......................... see the link given above.



Remember that if it is on familysearch ........

....... it belongs to the LDS, and if you have an LDS place in your town or city, you may request that they bring in the actual microfiches so that you can look at the filmed record yourself.


I live in a major city, we do have an LDS place ................... but unofrtunately it willd not bring in the microfiches :-( . I have no idea why not!

It took some finding, but I did find the Banns information that someone sent you



West Yorkshire, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1512-1812 about John Martin

Name: John Martin
Event Date: 20 Nov 1768
Event Type: Bann
Parish: Pontefract, St Giles and St Mary
Spouse's Name: Ann Wood

Banns called 6th 13th and 20th November 1768



which does make nonsense of the marriage record, or vice versa!

Sylvia - I missing something - why does:
Banns called 6th 13th and 20th November 1768
make nonsense of :
Marriage Date: 29 Nov 1768 ?

I wouldn't interpret Sylvia's cautions abt collections as referring to any of those at:
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND

Incidentally, the FS home page https://familysearch.org/ has a "Find a center" link that will show you nearby FHC's. You can rent an FHL film thru them to view at the centre - in Sylvia's home town, you can even view it at the main library downtown on Georgia - at any rate, you used to be able to do so, although I've not checked recently.
If you're not able to visit the appropriate county records office easily yourself, then renting the appropriate film is a viable means to your goal.


It might be helpful to know what older parishes there were. There's an 1850s map at:
http://maps.familysearch.org/
and an 1848 edition of Lewis at:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/source.aspx?pubid=445
Regarding the latter, the poor-law union nearly always coincides with the 1848 rego district, and regarding the former, one can layer on the civil rego district boundaries, which can be handy.

Incidentally, it's sometimes relevant for the born in/out of county column in 1841 that until 1844, most of Northumberland around Berwick was actually in a detached chunk of Co Durham - this affected all of Berwick RD except the town of Berwick, and the N part of Belford RD.

There were numerous minor adjustments to county boundaries thru the 19th cent, but the only major change was the creation of the County of London in 1889 (out of Middx N of the river and Surrey/Kent S of river).

Finally, google the appropriate county records office - most have online pamphlets saying what parish registers they hold - you're quite likely to only have access to their films, and not the actual rego's - conservation reigns.