Genealogy Chat

Hi Everyone! :-D

I hope everyone is well?

I have come back from a family holiday and have found that we are still missing the information on the other 3 children's births/baptisms.

I have since found out that John Julian (John Roberts Julian) b. 1811 was admitted into a benevolent asylum and it states that his parents were JOHN and SUSANNAH and not the John and Elizabeth which I have been trying to work out for years from Family stories.

I visited all the grave sites and have written down the dates of death for all the children and the birth years work out as follows:

John Thomas Searle Julian 1832 his death was 11 Nov 1899 and on his headstone it has aged 67 yrs old)

Emily is 1845 as her death says 1920 aged 75 yrs old

Edward is 1835 as death is 1867 aged 32 yrs old.

I was told by a family member that the children were baptised in St. Just but I have no idea if that is correct. (As I have found out family stories can be oh so wrong) LOL...

I am pretty certain that the Searle family census information is 100% correct, there is no other Julian census information that even remotely comes close.

It is still a mystery why all the children were given the ages as still living on Mary Ann's Death Cert.

Ok so now we have the correct years for the kids, how are we going to find them? Do I need to email each of the OPC people? I have checked and checked the Cornwall OPC until my eyes are burning, I just cannot find the Birth info, maybe it was destroyed or something? OR another crazy thought, maybe the children were sort of Adopted? I am literally going mad trying to find this information.

Any help of course is always greatly appreciated, and look forward to chatting some more with you on the boards.

Kindest Regards,
Allison

heh Kense, it's interesting for another reason for me ... I recently helped someone solve a Kempthorne mystery so I'm going to draw that to her attention :-)

so it seems that both John Searle/Julian and his mother Susanna Dotson/Julian had a choice of surnames

Susanna was a Julian by her unmarried mother's surname, making John a Julian by his unmarried mother's surname, but both Susanna and John seem to have used their father's surnames (Dotson, Searle) socially.

To confirm Joonie's post this is the relevant image.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11819-84197-68?cc=1769414&wc=3CB4-DPY:138123201,141878801,1582894414
Top right hand side.

It is written twice, the first entry being put in the wrong year.

Interesting that one of the preceding entries was a Susannah Kempthorne Roberts (daughter of John & Alice Roberts)

that serendipitous census found by Jacqueline when she was looking for the 'wrong' thing :-) (I have had that happen too, it's amazing how luck works sometimes)

if John Julian's parents were not married and he was given his mother's surname ... perhaps his father was Searle and he chose to go by that name in adulthood

that would certainly fit with / explain the facts we seem to have, and would not be at all unusual

I'm not quite sure how it fits with his mother being baptised Susanna Roberts Julian *Dotson* ... but it's a work in progress :-)


edit - ah, the baptism record actually goes like this

Day Month 29-Mar
Year 1789
Parish Or Reg District Martin in Meneage, St.
Forename Susanna Roberts
Surname JULIAN/DOTSON
Father Forename Thomas DOTSON
Mother Forename Mary JULIAN

it is very unusual for the mother's surname to be mentioned so it seems her parents were not married

familysearch has assigned the surname Dotson but that may not be justified

Have just found the baptism of the above St Mary's Truro father was John but mother was Elizabeth Brenton so doesn't appear to be your Emily

There is a birth registered for Emily Ann Julian in Truro 1846 AMJ 9/323 would this be your Emily if so the birth certificate would give the name of father & mother's maiden name.

The thing is that two of the children were baptised ( Susan Jane in Redruth, and Mary Anne in Sancreed). So it is likely that the others were also.

The missing ones are:
Edward abt 1833
John Thomas Searle abt 1836
Emily abt 1845

Probably Jean with her Cornish connections has already concidered this - might his family have been non-conformists?
http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/

If so, a baptism wouldn't appear in Established Church records nor, for that matter, on RC ones.

I am a member of the Cornwall Family History Society & have looked for the birth of these children but with no positive siting, I have checked under the name Searle & Julian so perhaps they were not baptised

Jean

Actually it was Jacqueline who found the 1841 census image.

If you keep looking at the Cornish OPC site then eventually you may find the missing baptisms. If you follow them on Facebook then you are notified when they have added records to the database.

If you have a reason to suspect that the family may have lived in a particular parish that has not yet been transcribed by the OPCs for that period (see their coverage charts), then if images are available you may find them by browsing. It is time consuming but can be very rewarding.

https://familysearch.org/image/viewer#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecapi%2Fsord%2Fwaypoint%2F3CBQ-JWL%3A138123201%3Fcc%3D1769414

Hi Everyone :-)

Wow, reading all that back, I think I ranted too much........ Sorry! Hope someone can point me in the right direction regarding Cornwall.

Kind Regards
Allison

Hi Everyone :-)

Thank you so much for everyone's help, I really really appreciate it.

Malyon: I think you could be right regarding Susanna. I only recently realised that John could indeed be illegitimate. Family stories just said his parents were John and Elizabeth, I think that is because of the stigma associated with it. I would be interested to know what site you found the info on? I am with ancestry.com and myheritage, and I usually try to search Cornwall OPC records. I was with findmypast.com.au but I can't afford to keep all of them! LOL

Kense: I really do believe that is the correct family now as they do not appear anywhere else in the UK Census, it makes sense especially since the occupation is Sawyer which is what John did, then John Thomas and Edward all carried on that occupation once in South Australia. Also, the area is right too, so I am hoping it is correct! I think you are correct also in the name, I just looked at it again and it does appear that Ann has a line through it! Also the ages of the 3 children look right. Was wondering also where you found the Census image? I looked for ages and could not find it, I was lucky to find you lovely people here! Oh yes also thinking about John going by the name of Searle it would not surprise me as he had problem after problem after settling in Australia, the poor man went insolvent, then was charged with RUNNING AMOK! in a hotel, apparently slashing the billiard table cloth with a knife and upsetting the poultry! Sadly he died alone in a lunatic Asylum in Victoria! :( The copy of his death certificate is horrible as it says "unknown" in nearly every column.......so so sad!

ArgyllGran: The record is a copy of Mary Ann's Death Certificate and it does indeed name the ages of the children (no DOB at all) as if they were living which I find truly strange as Susan Jane did die aboard the Trafalgar. Mary Ann was pregnant on the voyage also and gave birth to a baby girl whom she named Susan Jane again, but alas that poor child also died!!! so sad :( Also my great grandfather Edward had passed away by that year too, so maybe they just wrote down the names of the children and worked it out?

Chris Ho: Thankyou very much for those trove images. I have searched and searched Trove and found plenty of articles on Edward and Ellen etc.. I just didn't find anything else on John Thomas Searle Julian as I was putting his whole name in quotes! Yes I know, I am silly!

I was also wondering if anyone else could point me in the right direction of trying to find birth information on the 5 children born in Cornwall. We have found only the two Daughters Baptism's. Susan Jane in Redruth, and Mary Anne in Sancreed. I cannot find Edward, John Thomas Searle and Emily. I can only find an Emily Ann and the parents names do not add up at all. I have only recently obtained Mary Ann's death certificate which is how myself and Caz twigged that Dotson was indeed a family name carried through, why else would it be on her death certificate?

I have been wondering if I can actually contact someone in Cornwall, but I don't know who to contact? I really do appreciate everyone's hard work and effort for even looking at these posts as I do realise how much time it takes just to research one name.

Again, thanks to all, Kindest Regards and hope you are all doing well with your searches,

Allison :-D

p.s. I am going to Adelaide in October to pick up my parents and take hubby with me on a family tree search holiday in Blinman, Beltana, and Quorn to see where Edward and his wife and family all settled an made lives for themselves as Early Pioneers. I cannot wait to see where they all lived, laughed and loved. So yes, I am trying to gather as much information to give to my Dad in a book so he can see where his family came from. A bit Like my version of who do you think you are for my Daddy! :-D

http://tinyurl.com/ngnw65o

http://tinyurl.com/ngwkbrx

(relates to Death of son, John Thomas)

Chris :)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y

(Aus. Newspapers)

(also coming up on google search)

Allison -
you mentioned Mary Ann's death in 1879, with a list of her children.

Does the record you found actually list the children's ages, or just their DOB's?
Seems strange if Susan's listed as "aged 39" if she died in 1848.

Is it possible that he thought of himself as John Searle Julian and gave that name to the enumerator who confused the surname? All the other surnames of the family are written "Do".

Incidentally looking at the 1841 census image, Mary has Ann following her name but it seems to be omitted from the transcript. Admittedly it does give the impression of having a line through it, but does it?

this could be john julian mothers death


Susannah Dodson
England, Cornwall and Devon Parish Registers
Name: Susannah Dodson
Event Type: Burial
Event Date: 23 Jun 1875
Event Place: St Martin in Meneage, Cornwall, England
Age: 87
Birth Year (Estimated): 1788

Ok back to my research. Has anyone had any luck with these rascal Julians from Cornwall?

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated as I have only one brain and it can't take much more head bashing against the wall....Ok that is a little dramatic, I think I might be onto something with the Census though, I think that they went by the name Searle......does anyone else agree it would be possible?
Kind Regards
Allison :-D

Maybe I just need to contact someone in Cornwall or try to get on the show Who Do You Think You Are? LOL

I am even more confused now.

I do know that I have John Julian's death certificate and Mary Ann's, poor old John's has no information whatsoever, poor man died in a lunatic asylum. Mary's does however list her childrens names and ages......

I think this is how the Searle and Dotson come into the equation:
Mary Ann Julian died in Clunes, Victoria in 1879.

Her children are listed as follows:

John Thomas Searle Julian aged 46
Edward Dodson Julian aged 43
Mary Ann Julian aged 40
Susan Jane Julian aged 39
Emily aged 34
Eli aged 28

I have a feeling that the census information for the Searle family is the Julian family as I can find no other Julian's in 1841 Census that makes any sense at all and the names make sense.

I have pretty much nearly given up on my search, im getting over it after 10 years of relentless dead ends and thinking that John's parents were John and Elizabeth aaaaaaaaaaghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so frustrating. :-S :-S :-S :-S :-S :-S :-S

Unfortunately no, but if your daughter is over here in April, the Cornwall Record Office has it