Genealogy Chat

Thank you Potty :-D

Lesley, the image of the PR for Ralph & Nancy's marriage is on Ancestry - will pm it to you.

Great read. Thank you Kense :-)

If you can wait for a year or two, the information may be available a lot cheaper but not on a certificate.

http://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/jun15news.htm#BaronessScott

Thanks for the links Malcolm

Oh Potty
Thank you for this.
Can I ask where you found Ann as a witness to marriage ?

Thanks again.
Lesley

One of the witnesses to Ralph & Nancy's marriage was Ann Holden - possibly Nancy's sister?

Two possible siblings for Ralph:

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1841
TAYLOR Samuel Spotland Further Rochdale HOLDEN

Name:Samuel Taylor
Baptism Date:1 Aug 1841
Parish:Rochdale, St Chad
Parish as it Appears:Rochdale
Father's name:James Taylor
Mother's name:Ann Taylor
Reference Number:L48/1/3/7
Item Number:1
Archive Roll:645

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1842
TAYLOR James Spotland Further Rochdale HOLDEN

Name:James Taylor
Baptism Date:9 Apr 1843

Parish:Rochdale, St Chad
Parish as it Appears:Rochdale

Father's name:James Taylor
Mother's name:Ann Taylor
Reference Number:L48/1/3/8
Item Number:2
Archive Roll:645

Throughout the UK, actual BMD certs are only available thru the appropriate national GRO, or from the local RO that recorded the event (e.g., Rochdale RO).
[Marr certs can also be bought from the officiating parish church if it's in their current register]
All these certs come at a fixed price per cert, which can vary from nation to nation.
Actual certs are the ones you'ld need for legal purposes, like getting a passport, or getting someone buried, etc.

For genealogical purposes, it suffices to get an image of the actual register.
The GROs for both Irelands sell such uncertified images, as does GROS for older events. These images have a hefty discount.
[GROS sells credits via SP in 7 quid's worth blocks - with care, this is enough to buy 5 BMD images (or parish rego images or census images)]

In England/Wales thru 1898, only the established church, jews and quakers (and the GRO) were authorized to maintain official marr rego's.
When the church rego's were full, and the local RO had a copy, the rego was deposited in some archive, usually the local county records office.
If a non-conformist marr took place, then a local registrar would need to attend with his official rego.
The non-conformist sect was free to make their own entry in their parish registers for the marr - some did, but they needn't conform to the standard pattern, e.g. RC records might Latinize the forenames.
Post-1898, non-conformists could apply to be authorized to keep official marr regos. It typically took a couple of years for them to get their act together and get authorization, although the RCs didn't apply until 1980-ish.

So C of E m.certs are usually deposited in the county records offfice.
Some of these counties have a chunk of their records online.
You can look at what collections Ancestry and FMP have online.
Sme counties have their own online presence - e.g., Essex, Durham, Medway.
You can also check FS:
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND
[NB FS has not indexed many of their records, and some of their indexes are only partial, so one often has to "browse the images"]

If you're looking for a particular image - e.g., John Proe's marr:

Marriages Mar 1860 (>99%)
Crossley Robert Rochdale 8e 67
Green Elizabeth Rochdale 8e 67
Proe John Rochdale 8e 67
Whatmough Elizabeth Rochdale 8e 67

then it helps to check if there's a local index, via: http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd

Here, we're interested in: http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1860
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
PROE John GREEN Elizabeth Wardleworth, St Mary the Virgin Rochdale CE12/1/101

In this case, there's a transcription at http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
Marriage: 5 Feb 1860 St Mary in the Baum, Wardleworth, Lancs.
John Proe - 33, Mechanic, Bachelor, Castle Street
Elizabeth Green - 35, Spinster, Bury
Groom's Father: Thomas Proe, Smith
Bride's Father: Squire Green, Cooper
Witness: William Collins; Sarah Collins, (X)
Married by Licence by: Albert Shadwell Shutte
Register: Marriages 1850 - 1870, Page 51, Entry 101
Source: LDS Family Search

but we're after an image.

It's not indexed at: https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1788853
but we "Browse through 248,202 images" down the following path:
England, Lancashire, Ches...rish Registers, 1603-1910 > Lancashire > Wardleworth, St Mary > Marriages, 1850-1870 > Image 52 of 251

Note the Lancs BMD hit gives the church and a local ref: CE12/1/101
Most local refs have 3 elements:
1) a church register code (or subdistrict code for Bs & Ds)
2) a register sequence #
3) an entry # or a page $ - usually entry #s are used for marrs, so one knows who wed whom.

Church marr rego's (and B & D rego's) have 500 entries, at 2 per page for marrs (& 5 per page for Bs & Ds)

There's 2 entries per image in this set, so entry 101 should be on image 51 - when we check that, we see it's actually on image 52 - some earlier image must have been duplicated for some reason.

Thank you all for the links and posts. I got the marriage certificate but will have to order the birth certificate to be sure. Thanks again

It has on Ralph 1844 marriage certificate that his father is Ralph but I think that is because he raised him.

That must be Ralphs 1806 brother then. Strange mothers maiden name is Holden when Ralph 1806 married Nancy Holden :-S

I do. This post was about B M D certificates. I was just replying to your question. I had not intended this post to be about Ralph.

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1844
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
TAYLOR Ralph Spotland Further Rochdale HOLDEN SF/3/345


Baptism: 22 Sep 1844 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Ralph Taylor - [Child] of James Taylor & Ann
Abode: Spotland
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Wm. Simpson, Curate
Register: Baptisms 1841 - 1846, Page 65, Entry 518
Source: LDS Film 2356444

Do you already have a thread about this?

His mother on ukbmd is Holden but that is Nancys maiden name ? :-0

I am looking for Ralph taylors parents he was born 1844. He is on the census records 1851 but down as nephew all the way through. Born in rochdale. census 1851 with Ralph taylor and Nancy and their Children James and Jane.

Go to the following site, and look at the menu

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/

Whose parents are you looking for? In which County?

Can we help?

It isn't always necessary to buy certs....................unless the surnames are common ones

I sub to Ancestry but needed birth certificates to find mother and fathers names.
As the family tree grows you could spend a small fortune.
I will give your advice a try and see where that leads me. Thank you

For free records just Google parish bmd or such, include the parish name in your search

Other paying sites are Ancestry and Find my Past

If you don't sub to the above you can ask on here and people will look for you

Here's an example of one

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/