Genealogy Chat

(ah, ok, no worries, just that it looked like somebody had been on Probate Index)

Chris :)

Hi Chris Ho
yes that post did relate, the reason I deleted it is because there are living relatives who may not know about us, I am searching for my grandmothers parents (at her request) who gave her up at birth, the living relatives are siblings. I felt that the best thing would be to deleted the post should they stumble upon it as I don't want to case anyone any stress or heartache.

+++DetEcTive+++ I will have a look at your suggestions that certainly gives me something else to go on :)

Thanks both for your help

Mgnv- yes that is true. However the 2 Sourh London crems/cemeteries have only in the last 10 years or so, released their records to deceasedonline. As far as I'm aware, they are not open to public searches, only via DoL.
Eltham Cemetery is Huge! Eltham Crem is actually jointly run by several councils including the London Borough of Bexley in N Kent. Can't comment via personal knowledge about Hither Green.

DetEcTive - RE: "With no headstone, there's not going to be anything on Billionsofgraves or Findagrave where the details/photo's are uploaded. "

I had the impression that Findagrave mostly noted headstone info, but occassionaly, I've seen records there for some cemeteries that look like they've been taken from the cemetery registers

A passing thought - did the cremation entry mention the Funeral Directors? If so, it might be possible to trace them to see if they still have the original records. Unlikely but...

Are there any qualifications regarding the Doctor who issued permission to cremate? Eg Coroner for SE London, or similar. Research the address given to see if it was a hospital or surgery.

Glad to have been of service. We all have different ways of thinking and some may not be in the expected linear direction. As said early, there is No Nellie Helen Wright death registered in 1981. If I'd made an error, other members eagle eyes would have picked up on it. Helen was probably added at the Funeral Directors. Alternatively, there could have been a transcription error made at the crematorium. A known relative was copied on to the Register as Edward. He can tell you himself that he isn't nor has he ever been anything like that!

The newspaper suggestion was because of the delay between death as per the cremation record, the death registration and then the cremation.
The later two could just have been the earliest convenient or bookable date - family had prior arrangements or the crematorium was particularly busy.

Death to registration is a bit strange. Could she have gone through a post-mortem? Was there a delay in finding her body? Who knows!

If you're lucky, you might find a death announcement or other relevant article. Do bear in mind that an archivist or librarian charges search fees. If you can't visit in person to under take searches, the DC would be cheaper.

Hi +++DetEcTive+++

So I have accessed the records and the address listed on there matches up to Ronalds which is great and also lists another relative which I haven't found, which is very interesting. Again the strange thing is it lists a middle name which I really cant work out, unless she was known as Helen..... it certainly isn't on her birth certificate which I purchased a few months back.... I will have a look into the newspaper articles that's a really good idea. Cost really isn't an issue but the problem I'm finding is almost pin pointing the right Nellie Wright, as you can imagine for the era I am looking at this name was quite common and I don't really want to be buying lots of things for the wrong people. Its just great that there are people like yourself who can provide a little guidance and give people ideas and the confidence to look at other sites and places which I am extremely grateful for :)

Thanks

Don't think so - due to the delay between the death, registration and cremation, would it be worth searching local papers for possible articles?

You've said that you are after 'free' reports - unless you search historical ER and possible newspapers in person, there is going to be some fee involved.
With no headstone, there's not going to be anything on Billionsofgraves or Findagrave where the details/photo's are uploaded.

FH research is not a cheap hobby - if you can, bite the bullet and access the cremation records

Hi her dob was 4th sept 1914 she was definitely registered as Nellie Carter as I have a copy of her birth certificate, she married Ronald in Dec 1937. My thought are that her daughter would have registered the death.

The details I have from a death register is:

Name Nellie Wright
Birth Date 4 Sep 1914
Date of Registration Mar 1981
Age at Death 66
Registration district Lewisham
Inferred County London
Volume 14
Page 0617

What I was hoping for is looking through burial records to find where she was buried/cremated and if there may be a grave stone, obviously this may not be the case if she was cremated and the ashes scattered.....
On deceasedonline I have found a Nellie Helen Wright also cremated at hither green crem but it would seem strange that the name is wrong if my susspissions are potential true, how could the name be wrong?? Which is why I was wondering if there are other websites which could tell me this information?

I hope I'm making some sense :-)

Perhaps I'm a little too hopeful that there is something somewhere that his this level of detail....

Nell, Nellie are diminutives of Helen. Perhaps her birth was registered as Helen but she was known as Nellie but her "proper" name was included as a middle name when her death was registered.

There is NO Nellie Helen Wright death reg in England or Wales in 1981. The info is only as good as the informant's knowledge. Its possible that they weren't sure if she was a Nellie or a Helen, hence the Funeral Director adding Helen to the booking.

1939 register

Wright Household (4 People) Carlands South Road , Lewisham, London, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number

Nellie Wright 04 Sep 1914 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 111 4
Ronald E Wright 14 Oct 1912 Male Advertising Consultant Married 111 1
William I (L) Long 02 Mar 1905 Male Company Director Print Married 111 2
Cyril E (J) Child 25 Jan 1912 Male Commercial Artist & Des Single 111 3
+ one Closed Record

The death certainly seems to 'fit'. Its cheaper to access the cremation register than to buy the DC especially if you took advantage of the 'double up' offer.

So we can see what you have found

Nellie Helen Wright
CrematedOn: 30 March 1981
Recorded at: Hither Green Crematorium (Lewisham)
Date of death 08 February 1981

That's a fair old time beteen death & cremation!

The closest death reg which you are probably considering is
Nellie Wright
Birth Date: 4 Sep 1914
Date of Registration: Mar 1981
Age at Death: 66
Registration district: Lewisham
Inferred County: London
Volume: 14
Page: 0617

Have you found them on the 1939 register to check dob?

There's no reluctance it's just that people on genes have been so helpful so far I feel a bit awkward asking for further help :)

The person I've found already is Ronald Eric Wright he died 5th October 1979 and I have his cremation record. I'm trying to confirm the death year for his wife Nellie Wright formally Carter she was born Sept 1912, I thought she died in March 1981 but I'm now not so sure as there is a nellie Helen wright with the same dates. Their last known address was Iona Close, Ravensbourne.

Does this help??

A short answer - No!

Actually, the person who organises the cremation won't necessarily be the one who registered the death.
Child A registers the death - Child B goes to the undertaker or possibly even sibling, surviving spouse or any combination you can think of?

If you can overcome your reluctance to give names and years, we might be able to find what you are looking for. At the very least we might be able to back track to rule out the 'possible' death. We don't need to know the 'back story'.

Can you track down the historical ER for the year the husband died? Its likely to be held at the nearest Archive or Library with a Local Studies Section. You could then work forward until the wife disappears from the address. Obviously there'd be a charge if you couldn't visit in person.

Did the wife have children or other relatives in another part of the country whom she may have moved close to?

Just out of interest are there any sites anyone is aware of where you can search burial / cremation records by the person listing the death??

Thanks in advance

Look for the death reg for the female who you are considering. That should give you their age and dob as known to the informant. It might help you to decide if it might be correct.

Its unlikely to be on freebmd but might be on (free) Familysearch as well as the subscription sites

The husband died first and I purchased the record from deceased online last night which says he was cremated and the ashes taken away, so I'm wondering if they were scattered somewhere rather than being placed in the cemetery. She died after, I thought I'd found her but the person I found had a middle name listed at the same crematorium and my person doesn't have one listed on their birth certificate.

I don't know if either of them had Wills or need to have Grants of Probate, this one is rather a long story :)
I will try searching on the calendar and see if it shows me anything.

Many thanks

I know you would have to pay for it but have you looked at who is buried in the lair with her husband please? When I searched for an ancestor on deceased online, he didn't show on the search results but when I paid to check the lair of his daughter and son in law he was buried in the same lair and I got the details. His grandchildren had had a headstone erected naming their parents but hadn't included their grandfather.

Did the wife die before or after her husband? Did either of them leave Wills or need to have Grants of Probate?

You can search for entries on the Probate Calendar although it costs £10 to be sent a copy of the Will/Grant
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

Deceasedonline have an offer on at the moment if you think you can stretch to £5 to view burial/cremation details

Quoting from an email sent today......

Under the 'buy one get one free' offer, all voucher purchases, which start from only £5.00, will be doubled in value. For every voucher purchased, the same value will be added to your account in the form of a bonus

When purchasing vouchers simply click on 'add a promotion code' and enter the special code AUG16DBLV in the box provided
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