Genealogy Chat

The continuing story of Albert and Carol ...

First a bit of catching up:

I'm now in touch with Martin Cundy in Canada, thank you for the pointer and suggestion JoonieCloonie.

I now have Carol Max Mendels' Australian military record. The most notable entry is where he claims to be a widower and Catherine Ellen Carroll to be his mother.

But now the interesting bit and the bit with which I would like some further help, please, from someone with world access on Ancestry (or anywhere else for that matter!)

I have a copy of his marriage records from Australia. In them he claims that his father was Carol Max Mendels (identical to his own name), a tailor, and his mother was Edith May Stevenson. Can anyone find any evidence for these claims please? Ideally a birth certificate for Carol Max the younger and / or a marriage certificate for Carol Max the elder and Edith May. So far I've drawn a blank in the ANA collection.

Keith

Thanks to Ancestry's Easter weekend offer of free access to Commonwealth records, I've learned a little more. However there are several Albert Cundys.

It seems almost certain that the Albert Cundy who sold a car which was not his in NZ was the same Albert Cundy as left his wife in the UK: one of the press clippings mentions the magistrate making a comment to that effect.

I still need evidence, however, that the Albert Edward Cundy who changed his name to / masqueraded as Carol Max Mendels is the same Albert J Cundy who left his wife in the UK.

There is a mention in an entry in the Australian Police Gazette 1925 that "Albert Edward Cundy, alias Carol Max Mendels (28) ... [is] Identical with offender Albert Cundy (vide New Zealand Police Gazette 1922 pages 303 and 432, and New Zealand Photo-Book 32 page 134)".

Note that this is Albert with a middle name of Edward, whereas the Albert of the motor car had J as middle initial on his birth certificate.

Has anyone ideas, please, how I can be sure that the Albert Edward Cundy who later became known as Carol Mendels, was or was not the same individual as Albert J Cundy of the motor car? There seems to be at least a chance of confirmation if I could follow up the references to the NZ Police Gazette and Photo Book, but they are not available on line as far as I can tell

Subsequent edit: there is a record on Ancestry for Mendels' military service in WWII, this gives his birth date as 4 September 1905. Albert Cundy's DoB was 4 September 1901. The 4 September date for both adds support to the idea that they are the same person.

Thank you Kay - Court Martial!!

I saw the first record and sent a message asking about getting digital copy of the documents, but one needs to be patient, they offer a 30 day turnaround for enquiries!

But I hadn't seen the second one, I wonder how I missed it. I assume it was in the Australian National Archives? Seems he remained a bad boy in the Army, I wonder what he got up to.

I still can't fathom how / why he decided to call himself Carol Max Mendels, there must have been a reason.

There's also a small discrepancy that's bothering me: I have a birth record for him as Albert J Cundy, yet here he is Albert Edward Cundy. I wonder whether it's significant.

Keith

Hi Joonie

I hadn't thought about doing so, but since you've given me a pointer I may well! Thank you! It's worth asking whether they are interested in the family history and sharing what I've found out so far.

Keith

Item details for: B883, NX9699
Request copy
Title
MENDELS CAROL MAY : Service Number - NX9699 : Date of birth - 04 Sep 1905 : Place of birth - SYDNEY NSW : Place of enlistment - SYDNEY NSW : Next of Kin - MENDELS CATHERINE
Contents date range
1939 - 1948
Series number
B883
Click to see which government agency or person created this item.
Control symbol
NX9699
Citation
NAA: B883, NX9699
Item barcode
4847609
Location
Canberra
Access status
Open
Date of decision
16 Oct 2013
Physical format
PAPER FILES AND DOCUMENTS (allocated at series level)
Records authority class number
1010873
Date registered
19 Feb 2002

? .

also.


[MENDELS Carol Max (Lance Corporal) : Service Number - NX9699 : Unit - Australian Army Canteen Services, Australian Imperial Force : Date of Court Martial - 18 January 1941]
Access status: Not yet examined Location: Canberra
1941 - 1941 7476298.

most of the Mendels from the Ausralian Archives list seem to be of German birth.

Keith I got a bit lost in the thread but are you wanting to contact the family in Canada?

https://www.linkedin.com/in/marty-cundy-aa48a733/

MargaretM - We probably guessed you'd drifted off to do something else ;-)
KeithG - no problem.

Thank you DetEcTive, that seems to make it conclusive, so I can put my conspiracy theories to bed I think.

Keith

Thank you for responding, DetEcTive. I'm in Canada so 5 hours behind you and I was busy preparing supper.

The textual image does say Albert Edward Cundy ALIAS Carol Max Mendles, so the alias is as written, not user submitted.

Another thought, Margaret.

In the record above that you posted at 9 Apr 2017 20:00:

Albert Edward Cundy
in the New South Wales, Australia, Police Gazettes, 1854-1930
View
New South Wales, Australia, Police Gazettes, 1854-1930
Name:
Albert Edward Cundy
[Carol Max Mendels]
Birth Year:
abt 1899

This appears to show both names on the same sheet. Is the image available on Ancestry? Might that provide more information?

And / or: I think those square brackets are Ancestry's way of indicating user submitted content, in other words someone has researched this before and added Albert's name to the record. Is there anything to indicate who / when / why?

Thanks again

Keith

That is what I suspect, Margaret. Albert was a bit of a bad boy, the press clippings earlier in the thread tell of him striking up a relationship with a woman in NZ, then selling her car and making off to Australia with the proceeds. On that basis stealing a bike and a watch are pretty small beer . I could imagine that he might have told some of his story to his drinking pals and one of them could perhaps have then impersonated him.

I'm told - but without any detail yet - that Albert was to receive a bequest, his parents and sister and brother-in-law having been killed in a German air raid in 1941. I don't know whether that was a substantial or a nominal amount.

That record certainly looks like his (second) marriage - they could have got him for bigamy as well!

Thank you very much for the records, anything else you can find would be much appreciated.

I don't know whether / how / where name changes were recorded in Oz - if they were. Might there be a record somewhere?

How about a birth record for Carol M Mendels? Would the absence of such a record suggest he didn't exist? No, I suppose not, he could be an immigrant. But the presence of such a record would suggest that he had appropriated Albert's persona. [I have a copy of the birth record for Albert in Sydney, NSW.]

The military record I referenced above is not yet digitised and there's a 30 day reply expectation to my enquiry about whether I can access it.

Does the marriage record provide access to the original record image? If so, might there be more to learn - such as father's name etc? It's thought he married a widow so Catherine E Caroll might well be her married name.

Keith

Could this be his marriage?


Carol M Mendels
in the Australia, Marriage Index, 1788-1950
Australia, Marriage Index, 1788-1950 No Image
Text-only collection
Name:
Carol M Mendels
Spouse Name:
Catherine E Carroll
Marriage Date:
1927
Marriage Place:
New South Wales
Registration Place:
Sydney, New South Wales
Registration Year:
1927
Registration Number:
5573

The records that I posted were all from Ancestry Worldwide, Keith.

I agree Carol Max Mendels is such an unusual name. Do you suppose there was someone by that name and he stole their identity?

Thank you MargaretM, that might well explain it. But why on earth Carol Max Mendels? If you were going to change your name, that's not exactly the first thing that would spring to mind!!

The middle record seems to show both names applying to the same person, if so then that's proof that he did go by both names (although his middle initial was J rather than E for Edward).

Are these records all from the Australian National Archives? I'm struggling to find them at the moment, not least because of my unfamiliarity with the site!

It was apparently believed in family circles that he remarried in Australia to someone called "Nell" (so perhaps Ellen?), thought to have been a widow.

Mmmmm... that's too much of a coincidence! Carol May (sic) Mendels birthdate is given as 4 September 1905, Albert's was 4 September 1901. Next of kin given as Mendels Catherine.

https://digital.naa.gov.au/discoverylayer/search/item/RS_4847609

Keith

This is the warrant for his arrest for the theft of the bicycle but it says that he's a native of Holland and a motor driver:


Carol Max Mendels
in the New South Wales, Australia, Police Gazettes, 1854-1930
View
New South Wales, Australia, Police Gazettes, 1854-1930
Name:
Carol Max Mendels
Birth Year:
abt 1899
Age:
26
Event Place:
Burwood, New South Wales, Australia
Event Type:
Other
Publication Date:
11 Nov 1925
Page #:
596

Maybe this is why he changed his name:

Albert Edward Cundy
in the New South Wales, Australia, Police Gazettes, 1854-1930
View
New South Wales, Australia, Police Gazettes, 1854-1930
Name:
Albert Edward Cundy
[Carol Max Mendels]
Birth Year:
abt 1899
Age:
26
Event Place:
New South Wales, Australia
Event Type:
Theft
Publication Date:
23 Dec 1925
Page #:
676
See Also Year:1924
See Also Page:
80

Charged on warrant with the larceny as the bailee of a bicycle. property of Henry Whales. Sentenced to 2 months hard labour. Further charged on warrant with stealing a watch, property of Louise Linn. Sentenced to 3 months hard labour accumulative.

In 1932 address is Maitland Rd., Cessnock.
Same in 1934 & 35.

There's this Carol Max Mendels (one L), male, 28 Moolcha St., Mayfield, electrical mechanic.
At same address Catherine Ellen Mendels, female, home duties.


Carol Max Mendels
in the Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980
View
Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980
Name:
Carol Max Mendels
Gender:
Male
Electoral Year:
1930
Subdistrict:
Mayfield
State:
New South Wales
District:
Newcastle
Country:
Australia

Thank you DetEcTive, that's very helpful. In fact surprisingly so. The Carol Mendells was supposedly Carol "Max" Mendells, not a long way from "May". Albert Cundy was born in Sydney NSW 4 September 1901.

I'll have a further look at the Australian NA after dinner, which I now need to go and cook .

Keith