Genealogy Chat

Hi I am researching a friends grandmother, problem is their last name is Jones from the Rhondda area of Wales.
Her Father`s name is Vivian Jones born 27th Feb 1916 in Treherbert Rhondda, Died 13th March 1998 in Solihull West Midlands.
He married her mother Lily Mona Iris Rose 3rd June 1939, died 14th April 1963 in Treherbert Rhondda.
Her Grandfather`s name was Evan Roderick Jones died in 1962, dont know his birth date, again any infor here would be helpful.

Now I know I could send off for her fathers birth certificate, but on BMD there are 2 Vivian Jones born in 1916 in the Pontypridd district, one with mothers surname of Edwards, one with surname Jones, only problem is they are both shown to have been registered in the second quarter. Assuming one of these Vivian`s is her father how do I find out which one to send off for the birth certificate, bearing in mind they are both Jones.
If this is not her father then why isn't his birth showing. We have his short birth certificate, but obviously that does not show his mothers name.

Is it always going to be so difficult to sort out being as the name of Jones is so common in Wales, likewise with the name of Evan

To complicate matters her tree is in a bit of a mess, with what she thought was her grandmother being a Elizabeth Ann Jones, or Elizabeth A Johns (not Jones)
with over 30 children. Most are duplicates and I am trying to sort that out, but have to take that information at face value, and bear in mind that her father always said he and a sister Winifred were the only children.

Any help anyone can give would be appreciated.

Kind regards.

Alan.

is this the correct death
EVAN R
Last name JONES
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1880
Age 82
Death quarter 1
Death year 1962
District Merthyr Tydfil
County Glamorganshire
Volume 8B
Page 458
Country Wales
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain

© Findmypast

1939
1
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Vivian Jones 27 Feb 1916 Male General Plater (Heavy Work) Married 272 1
Lily M I Jones 29 Jun 1917 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 272 2

EVAN R
Last name JONES
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1915
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ EVAN R JONES married
Annie M Edwards
Spouse's last name Edwards
District Pontypridd
District number -
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A
Page 1011
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

VIVIAN
Last name JONES
Birth year 1916
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's last name Edwards
District Pontypridd
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A
Page 1275
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain

1911
26 Geelyfaelog Terrace Penydarren, Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire, Wales

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Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
Thomas Walker Head Married Male Dowlais Iron Works 56 1855 Carmarthen
Transcription
Elizabeth Walker Wife Married Female - 51 1860 Glamorgan Dowlais
Transcription
Evan Arthur Walker Son Single Male - 9 1902 Glamorgan Dowlais
Transcription
Maggie Ann Walker Daughter Single Female Mothers Help 23 1888 Glamorgan Dowlais
Transcription
Elizabeth Walker Daughter Single Female - 13 1898 Glamorgan Dowlais
Transcription
Evan Roderick Jones Boarder Single Male Colliery Repairer 31 1880 Brynmadog Cardiganshire

1881
26, Cwmrhydybedd, Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire, Wales

Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
David Roderick Jones Head Married Male 29 1852 Iron Railman Cardiganshire, Wales
Transcription
Hannah Jones Wife Married Female 24 1857 Wife Bettws, Cardiganshire, Wales
Transcription
Evan Roderick Jones Son Single Male 1 1880 - Bettws, Cardiganshire, Wale

1891
High Street, Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire, Wales

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
David Jones Head Married Male 40 1851 Railman Steel Works Cardiganshire, Wales
Transcription
Hannah Jones Wife Married Female 35 1856 - Bettws, Cardiganshire, Wales
Transcription
Evan Roderick Jones Son Single Male 11 1880 Scholar Bettws, Cardiganshire, Wales
Transcription
Margaret Jane Jones Daughter - Female 9 1882 Scholar Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription
Samuel Jones Son - Male 7 1884 Scholar Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription
Hannah Eliz Jones Daughter - Female 6 1885 Scholar Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription
David William Jones Son - Male 4 1887 Scholar Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription
John Albert Jones Son - Male 2 1889 - Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales

David
Last name Jones
Age 27
Birth year 1851
Year 1878
Event Marriage
Marriage year 1878
Marriage date 19 Oct 1878
Residence -
Father's first name(s) Evan
Father's last name Jones
Place Betws Bledrws
County Cardiganshire
Country Wales
Spouse's first name(s) Hannah
Spouse's last name Davies
Spouse's age 24
Spouse's residence -
Spouse's father's first name(s) Saml
Spouse's father's last name Davies

Thank you Maddie, I have found some of the information you've sent. The birth year with the mothers name of Edwards is the wrong quarter, there`s another one with mothers name of Jones also wrong quarter. Vivian was born in Feb, first quarter.

Have thought whether he made up his birthday, but his daughter says shes 100% sure, other possibility is that one of these is his mother, and this is his baptised date, or he was adopted, in which case we may never know his true birth date.

if born in february would have probably been registered march - june,
his marriage cert will name his father and give his occupation or do you have it
maddie

You should be able to identify the correct birth from the short certificate, as it has the same GRO reference numbers as the full one.

My father only had a short cert. but I can use the GRO ref. to look up his mother's surname, even though it's not on the certificate.

Vivian Jones
England and Wales Birth Registration Index
Name
Vivian Jones
Event Type
Birth Registration
Registration Quarter
Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year
1916
Registration District
Pontypridd
County
Glamorganshire
Event Place
Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, Wales
Mother's Maiden Name (not available before 1911 Q3)
Edwards
Volume
11A
Page
1275
Line Number
41



the Vivian jones with mother Edwards looks like he died

Deaths Jun 1916   (>99%)

Jones
 Vivian
 0
 Pontypridd
 11a
676

so this must be your Vivian jones

Vivian Jones
England and Wales Birth Registration Index
Name
Vivian Jones
Event Type
Birth Registration
Registration Quarter
Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year
1916
Registration District
Pontypridd
County
Glamorganshire
Event Place
Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, Wales
Mother's Maiden Name (not available before 1911 Q3)
Jones
Volume
11A
Page
1400
Line Number
42

a female
VIVIAN
Last name JONES
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1916
Age 0
Death quarter 2
Death year 1916
District Pontypridd
County Glamorganshire
Volume 11A
Page 676

there are only 2 births for Vivian jones 1916 you did say mothers name Edwards and jones

JONES, VIVIAN EDWARDS Order
GRO Reference: 1916 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 1275
JONES, VIVIAN JONES Order
GRO Reference: 1916 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 1400

one of the Vivian's died in 1916 aged 0

Marriages Jun 1939   (>99%)

Jones
 Vivian
 Rose
 Pontypridd
 11a
1062
  
Rose
 Lily M I
 Jones
 Pontypridd
 11a
1062

you say Vivian was born on 27th feb 1916 so I don't think the june reg can be him

Hi Malyon.

Thats the quandry, the 2 Vivian`s in BMD are both born in the second quarter.
Vivian`s daughter is 100% sure his birthday is 27th Feb 1916

did your friend not know her grandparents

if that is Vivian's father evan r jones married a Edwards

A baby born on 27th February would not have to be registered until mid-April, so could be in the 2nd quarter.

Did you see my previous post? The short certificate will give you the GRO reference, so you will know which is the right one.

Hi Andysmum.

Yes saw your message. The two Vivian`s on GRO with mothers surnames of Edwards and Jones were born/registered in the june quarter of 1916, which doesnt add up.

The short birth certificate only has these numbers on it, YP 629715 at the top and 269/92 at the bottom.
Registration district is Pontypridd Sub district is Rhondda

Pontypridd is 11A there`s no reference to this on the certificate.
Help?