Genealogy Chat

The James reed marrying Mary Smith 20/12/1802 seems to be another family according to tree on ancestry.co.uk
James Reed born Little Shelford1777 died 5/4/1830.

So it looks like Mary Cox is mother of Elizabeth and Charlotte.

Maryb.

(would likely be below)

Chris :)

All England & Wales, Non-Conformist and Non-Parochial Registers, 1567-1970 (Ancestry)

Name: James Claypole
Gender: Male
Event Type: Baptism
Father: Thomas Claypole
Mother: Charlotte Reed
Baptism Date: 3 Apr 1836
Baptism Place: Northamptonshire, England (Whittlesey)
Denomination: Wesleyan
Piece Title: Piece 0905: Peterborough Circuit (Wesleyan), 1811-1837

(does give Charlotte as Daughter of James and Mary Reed)

(Burial of above Baptism also 1836, Whittlesey. FMP National Burial Index for England & Wales Transcription)

Would go with 1828 Marriage of pair, from FMP Boyd's Marriages, checked on CFHS Super Search. (Whittlesey)

1851 next door to Elizabeth Read is Charlotte Claypole 1808
Charlotte daughter born 1841 V14 P124 mum nee READ
Sally 1839 mum nee Read.

Charlotte Claypole a witness along with William Read to Elizabeth Read marriage 1855.

Maryb

Only 2 marriages showing up (Family Search) - (the Smith one not on freereg)

Thorney about 15 miles from Elm.

I would possibly discount the Little Shelford one as that is much further away from Elm/Thorney and there are births to the couple showing there.

Name James Reed
Spouse's Name Mary Cox
Event Date 28 Sep 1812
Event Place Thorney, Cambridge,England

---------------------------------------
Name James Reed
Spouse's Name Mary Smith
Event Date 20 Dec 1802
Event Place Little Shelford, Cambridge, England

(below I posted earlier for the Thomas 1855, with a couple of names)

Chris :)

http://www.gravestonephotos.com/public/gravedetails.php?grave=285983&scrwidth=796


(and think reference to below has been added earlier, if her!)

County Cambridgeshire
Place Elm
Church name All Saints
Register type Parish Register
Baptism date 26 Feb 1815
Person forename Elizabeth
Person sex F
Person abode Elm
Father forename James
Father surname REED
Father occupation Labourer
Mother forename Mary

https://www.freereg.org.uk/

Ah, thank you Mary, I should have thought of that. I was misled by her being "Mary Read" everywhere else. This is, I think, the same record as reported by both FMP and Ancestry:

Name: Mary Read
Registration Year: 1842
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Whittlesey
Inferred County: Cambridgeshire
Volume: 14
Page: 134

Yes:

LINDSEY, MARY -
GRO Reference: 1842 M Quarter in WHITTLESEY Volume 14 Page 134

Also Lindsey and not Lindsay.

Chris, you know by now that patience is not my long suit .

Thanks to a very helpful chap at Peterborough FHS I have some evidence that the suggestion earlier in this thread that Elizabeth was born Read (although these are transcriptions and I still need to see the originals - if that's possible).

1 May 1855 Skeels Thomas Ashworth (x) of age bac yeoman of Eastrea son of [blank] [blank]
Read Elizabeth (x) of age sp [blank] of Coates dau of [blank] [blank]
Wits: William Read, Charlotte Claypole

27 July 1877 Ashworth Elizabeth of Whittlesey Union 63 married to Thomas Ashworth Skeels 1/5/55

And thanks, Flip, I see that he married as Skeels but Elizabeth referred to herself in the census as Ashworth and the death or burial record above also says Ashworth.

Any thoughts about Thomas apparently being with William and Jane Clark in C1841 & C1851?

And I also need to find the right Read family for Elizabeth. Still, you've already helped me make some progress, thank you!!

Mary Read 1842 is on Gro as Mary Lindsey no mums maiden name.
Also Mary Lindsey March 1842 on FreeBMD.

Maryb.

(need to be patient Keith, wait for Cert.!, lol)

(another below also)

SKEELS, THOMAS CLARKE (43)
GRO Reference: 1862 M Quarter in CHESTERTON UNION Volume 03B Page 309

Chris :)

(well hope yours were easier Flip, lol, and not Fenland, borders also with Northants. and Lincs.)

He didn't marry as Ashworth, that was his second christian name:


Marriages Jun 1855 (>99%)

READ Elizabeth Whittlesey 3b 920 Scan available - click to view
SKEELS Thomas Ashworth Whittlesey 3b 920 Scan available - click to view

I looked at this earlier as my gg grandfather and g grandfather were Skeels, originating from Cambridgeshire - but I couldn't see any connection to your Thomas.

I think I must have been asleep @alviegal, you found Thomas in C1841, I skipped over that thinking it was C1851 with Thomas Ashworth and the same "parents". That looks to me fairly conclusive evidence that they are one and the same person. Thank you again!

Nice piece of circumstantial evidence, Mary , thank you.

Thomas Skeels leaves a puzzle tho', if he calls himself Skeels why would he have married as Ashworth? Not impossible, of course, the death record might be focusing on "the facts" while the name he used might have been his preference ...?

I wonder whether there is an unambiguous record of of the William Clark - Jane ??? marriage?

So what was Elizabeth calling herself in 1871 I wonder?

Keith

(could be possible Mary, age below)

Chris :)

SKEELS, THOMAS (40)
GRO Reference: 1860 S Quarter in NORTH WITCHFORD Volume 03B Page 315

(will look in later, going out shortly!)

1841 census next page to Thomas Sheals with mum Jane Clark is a John Lindsay age 30 married and a Publican.

Could this be death of Thomas Skeels J/A/S 1860 North Witchford 3b 315.
that would fit with Elizabeth being a widow 1861,I can't find her in 1871!

Maryb.

I'd found that possible / probable death, Chris, and it implies that Elizabeth ought to be in C1871 somewhere ...

That one place study is interesting, thank you very much for unearthing it. I note a couple of Thomas Ashworths ...

I'll get in touch with the site owner.

Keith

Here is the 1841 for Thomas with Wm and Jane Clark.


1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Eastrea, Whittlesey St Mary & St Andrew, Whittlesey, Cambridgeshire, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
William Clark Male 30 1811 -
Transcription
Jane Clark Female 40 1801 Cambridgeshire, England
Transcription
Thomas Sheals Male 20 1821 Cambridgeshire, England

(yes, wait for Cert...could get tricky otherwise!)

And not sure on Elizabeth after that 1861...(lost in the wild n' windy Fens somewhere, lol)

Chris :)

Edits

(looking round Dolby Coates Cambridgeshire on google, a few things, below came up)

http://coatesstudy.weebly.com/burials-my-ancestors.html

Deaths Sep 1877 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------
ASHWORTH Elizabeth 63 Whittlesey 3b 326

Thank you Chris, those records for Ann look highly probable.

I've ordered the Read - Skeels certificate, but it will take 10-14 days ...

I've also asked CFHS what they can tell me.

I've not been able to find a believable Skeels family in the census yet, nor Thomas in C1861 ...

There is a Thomas Ashworth in C1851, a confusing "wife son" to William and Jane Clark. In fact the image says "Do. Son" under the previous entry "wife" for Jane. I read this as Thomas being the wife's son but not the husband's. And there is a marriage 1842 William Clark and (maybe) Jane Read. All of which may be coincidence of course ...

Death
ASHWORTH, THOMAS (37)
GRO Reference: 1855 J Quarter in WHITTLESEY Volume 03B Page 413

Think to make things 'Skeels' a bit easier you need that 1855 Marriage Cert...

Chris :)

(or Parish cd!)

https://www.cfhs.org.uk/resultsbs.cfm?cdrefno=CD/PR/092&tag=5&sstag=1


https://www.cfhs.org.uk/index.cfm?tag=1

(has 'Super Search' now for reference)


http://www.gravestonephotos.com/public/gravedetails.php?grave=285983&scrwidth=796

(that Thomas on above)

Edits (looking at 1861 image, would say 'Hog Dealers' wife?) Edits (apologies, just see ag says same earlier)


(other Daughter perhaps, see bottom!)

Cambridgeshire Marriages Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) ANN
Last name READ
Birth year 1848
Marriage year 1867
Marriage day 16
Marriage month Oct
Spouse's first name(s) JOSIAH
Spouse's last name SUTTON
Place UPWELL, CHRISTCHURCH
Groom's first name(s) Josiah
Groom's last name SUTTON
Groom's marital status bac
Groom's age of full age
Groom's occupation lab
Groom's residence otp
Groom's father's first name(s) Joseph
Groom's father's occupation farmer
Bride's first name(s) Ann
Bride's last name READ
Bride's marital status sp
Bride's age 19
Bride's occupation [blank]
Bride's residence of Upwell St Peter's
Bride's father's first name(s) Elizabeth
Bride's father's occupation singlewoman


Marriages Dec 1867 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------
READ Ann Wisbeach 3b 1409
SUTTON Josiah Wisbeach 3b 1409


1871 (Find My Past)
Josiah Sutton Head (Ag Lab) - Male 25 1846 - Cambridgeshire, England (Manea)
Ann Sutton Wife - Female 22 1849 - Cambridgeshire, England
Mary Ann Sutton Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Cambridgeshire, England
John Sutton Son - Male 1 1870 - Cambridgeshire, England
Parish March
Registration district North Witchford
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 1611
Folio 28
Page 6


Birth
SUTTON, MARY ANN (READ)
GRO Reference: 1868 S Quarter in NORTH WITCHFORD Volume 03B Page 600

(some Baptisms, Burials relating March, on FMP Cambridgeshire Records)

There is this death 1855 for a Thomas Ashworth which would make Elizabeth a legitimate widow by 1861.

ASHWORTH, THOMAS 37 Order
GRO Reference: 1855 J Quarter in WHITTLESEY Volume 03B Page 413

However - it can't be the one Elizabeth married on 1st May !!!! Unless - not only has the name been mistranscribed but the date too

England Deaths and Burials 1538-1991 Transcription

First name(s) Thomas
Last name Ashworth
Gender Male
Marital status -
Occupation -
Event year 1855
Birth year -
Age at death -
Burial year 1855
Burial date 08 Apr 1855
Burial place Coates, Cambridge, England
Place Coates

I think that's it for me tonight, thank you very much for your help.
Tomorrow's challenge is to make some sense of "Skeels"!
Keith

So what can we make of "Skeels"? The only records for "Thomas Ashworth Skeels" all point to the same marriage.