Genealogy Chat

This is the death of the Helen in the censuses posted above:

COCHRANE
HELEN
68
1917
479/ 371
Falkirk

and I think this is John's death.

COCHRANE
JOHN
75
1909
481/B3 33
Polmont

No sign of any Upton, though.
The only thing I can think of is that somehow Peter was mistaken or misinformed about his mother's maiden name. Or the registrar made a huge mistake.

Peter was born 1875 and yes I did get his parents names from their marriage certificate. John and Helen Cochrane ( nee Upton ) both deceased at the time of Peter and Elizabeth's marriage in 1918.

Kind Regards

Sally

I'm not sure if your post is meant for me or for Sally, Janet.

If for Sally, she already has a copy of Peter's marriage cert.
If for me, I'm not spending credits on something Sally already has!

Try Scotlands people web site. you should find it on there

Well, I spent some credits.

That Peter Cochrane was illegitimate.
Born March 28, 1875, in Grahamston, Falkirk.
Father: John Cochrane, dock labourer.
Mother: Helen Marshall, ms Glen, "and who declares that this is not the child of her husband". [The H of Helen has been scored out, and an extra L inserted, making her name Ellen]


That fits with the 1883 marriage - but still no sign of Helen Upton.

And don't know if that's your Peter or not.


I think this is that Peter in 1881, when he's not with father John and first wife Janet, for obvious reason:


Peter Glen
in the 1881 Scotland Census
Name: Peter Glen
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relationship: Grandson
Mother's name: Agnes Glen
Gender: Male
Where born: Grahamston, Stirlingshire
Registration Number: 479/1
Registration district: Falkirk Burgh
Civil Parish: Falkirk Burgh
Town: Falkirk
County: Stirlingshire
Address: No 8 Gowan Avenue
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 7
Household schedule number: 145
LINE: 15
Roll: cssct1881_134
Household Members:
Name Age
James Glen 70
Agnes Glen 70
Agnes Glen 36
Peter Glen 6



I did wonder if Helen Glen / Marshall / Cochrane had later married again, before Peter's marriage, to an Upton - but can't see such a marriage.

What's the exact wording re parents on Peter's marriage cert, please?

Death of first wife Janet (her age differs on other censuses):

COCHRANE
JANET
41
1883
487/ 33
Polmont

IF the Glen / Cochrane marriage is the correct one, this could be John, Isabella, and Agnes with a previous wife/mother:
No Peter, though.



John Cochrane
in the 1881 Scotland Census
Name: John Cochrane
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Janet Cochrane
Gender: Male
Where born: Larbert, Stirlingshire
Registration Number: 487
Registration district: Polmont
Civil Parish: Polmont
County: Stirlingshire
Address: Polmont
Occupation: General Labourer
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 128
LINE: 21
Roll: cssct1881_138
Household Members:
Name Age
John Cochrane 47 - Larbert
Janet Cochrane 36
Helen Cochrane 13 - Bothkennar
Agnes Cochrane 2 Mo - Polmont
Isabella Cochrane 2 - Polmont
James McGregor 73


Baptism of daughter Helen:

Helen Cochrane
in the Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
Name: Helen Cochrane
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 15 Dec 1867
Birth Place: Bothkennar,Stirling,Scotland
Father: John Cochrane
Mother: Janet Robertson
FHL Film Number: 6035516

And probable marriage:

COCHRANE
HELEN
LANG
GEORGE
1887
490/ 5
Stirling

Peter's birth:

COCHRANE
PETER
M
1875
479/1 118
Falkirk Burgh


A few credits on SP will let you see his parents' names, mother's maiden name, and date and place of their marriage.

I suppose it's possible Helen had been married before - though I can't see the marriage of an Upton to a Glen.


EDIT:

Helen Glen does not appear to have been married before - she's Glen on earlier censuses.

EDIT AGAIN:

Yes, she married W Marshall in Falkirk in 1871, presumably after the census date, as she's Glen, a servant in Falkirk in 1871 census. And is also a servant in Falkirk, by name of Glen, in 1881, by which time she must have left her husband

Possibly ??



Peter Cochrane
in the 1891 Scotland Census
Name: Peter Cochrane
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relationship: Son
Father's name: John Cochrane
Mother's name: Helen Cochrane
Gender: Male
Where born: Falkirk, Stirlingshire
Registration Number: 487
Registration district: Polmont
Civil Parish: Polmont
County: Stirlingshire
Address: The Hollows
Occupation: Sawmill Labourer
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 104
LINE: 24
Roll: CSSCT1891_153
Household Members:
Name Age
John Cochrane 56 - Larbert
Helen Cochrane 41 - Falkirk
Peter Cochrane 16
Isabella Cochrane 12 - Polmont
Agnes Cochrane 10 - Polmont
Susan Cochrane 6 - Polmont
Margaret Cochrane 4 - Polmont

Ancestry suggests Helen's ms was Glen, but that seems unlikely (?).
The Cochrane/Glen marriage was in 1883 - after the births of the three eldest children above. (I suppose it could have been a second marriage for John.)
Also Helen in census above was born in Falkirk, whereas the Glen marriage took place in Glasgow.

COCHRANE
JOHN
GLEN
HELEN
1883
644/7 400
Blythswood


I can't see any marriage to a Helen Upton.
Nor any birth of a Helen Upton in Scotland.

Peter was born 1875 but I'm not sure where and I yes I did get his mother and fathers names from Peter an Elizabeths marriage certificate.

Kind Regards

Sally

When was Peter born, please? And where?

Did you find his parents' names on his marriage cert?

Not finding a marriage for John Cochrane and Helen Upton?

Oh my thank you all so very much you have been so helpful.

Kind Regards

Sally

This death is also indexed with surnames McVey and McInnes

COCHRANE
ELIZABETH
72
1952
643/ 58
East Kilbride

John's parents' marriage:

MCINNES
JAMES
ELIZABETH BRAIDWOOD/FR5131 (FR5131)
15/03/1846
622/
190 25
Barony

Elizabeth's parents' marriage (a few credits on SP will let you see and print the image of the original document):

MCINNES
JOHN
MCMILLAN
JANE
1877
560/ 19
Cathcart (Lanark)

John in 1871:



John McInnes
in the 1871 Scotland Census
Name: John McInnes
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relationship: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 560
Registration district: Cathcart
Civil Parish: Cathcart
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Eaglesham Road
Occupation: Block Pinter
ED: 3
Household schedule number: 22
LINE: 3
Roll: CSSCT1871_96
Household Members:
Name Age
John Rodgers 25
Elizabeth Rodgers 27
Rosanna Rodgers 4
James Rodgers 2
John McInnes 23
Hugh Boyde 17
James Boyde 15
Elizabeth Boyde 20



1861 ???

John Mcinnes
in the 1861 Scotland Census
Name: John Mcinnes
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relationship: Son
Father's name: Jas Mcinnes
Mother's name: Eliz Braidwood
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanark
Registration Number: 560
Registration district: Cathcart
Civil Parish: Cathcart
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Netherlee
Occupation: Lab In Printfield
ED: 3
Household schedule number: 18
LINE: 3
Roll: CSSCT1861_75
Household Members:
Name Age
Jas Mcinnes 50
Eliz Braidwood 43
Hugh Mcinnes 14
John Mcinnes 12
James Mcinnes 10
Cathrine Mcinnes 9
Alexr Mcinnes 6
Daniel Mcinnes 3
Michael Mccallum 44



and 1851:


John Mcinnes
in the 1851 Scotland Census
Name: John Mcinnes
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relationship: Son
Father: James Mcinnes
Mother: Elizabeth Mcinnes
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Parish Number: 622
Civil Parish: Calton
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 220 Dalmarnock Road
ED: 8E
Page: 3
Household schedule number: 10
LINE: 14
Roll: CSSCT1851_147
Household Members:
Name Age
James Mcinnes 40
Elizabeth Mcinnes 34
Hugh Mcinnes 4
John Mcinnes 3
James Mcinnes 1
John Braidwood 69

And 1881:



Elizabeth McInnes
in the 1881 Scotland Census
Name: Elizabeth McInnes
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relationship: Daughter
Father's name: John McInnes
Mother's name: Jane McInnes
Gender: Female
Where born: Ballagan, Dumbartonshire
Registration Number: 493
Registration district: Bonhill
Civil Parish: Bonhill
County: Dumbartonshire
Address: Clement'S Land
ED: 16
Household schedule number: 41
LINE: 4
Roll: cssct1881_142
Household Members:
Name Age
John McInnes 33 - block printer
Jane McInnes 28
Marion McInnes 3
Elizabeth McInnes 1
Annie McInnes 1 Mo
Daniel McInnes 22

Ok - so the 1891 and 1901 with parents Ann & Hugh are the wrong ones.

Going by 1901 for Lizzie with mother Jean, posted above by GreyGhost, this is Elizabeth in 1891:




Elizabeth McInnes
in the 1891 Scotland Census
Name: Elizabeth McInnes
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relationship: Daur (Daughter)
Mother's name: Jeanie McInnes
Gender: Female
Where born: Cathcart, Renfrewshire
Registration Number: 560
Registration district: Cathcart
Civil Parish: Cathcart
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Campbells Land
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 74
LINE: 12
Roll: CSSCT1891_177
Household Members:
Name Age
Jeanie McInnes 38
Marion McInnes 13
Elizabeth McInnes 11
James McInnes 8
William McInnes 3
Andw McCulloch 20

I do know that Elizabeth's parents were John McInnes and Jeanie ( nee McMillan ) and Peter's parents were John Cochrane and Helen ( nee Upton ).

If anyone has any information on these please.

Many thanks again in advance.

Sally