Genealogy Chat

Ann Catherine Barnard was born 10 Nov 1796 in Deptford and married Isaac John Jesson on 15 Jan 1821 in St. Anne, Soho.
Her father was William Barnard 1759 - 1817. According to a tree on Ancestry he married Rachael Richards 1762 - 1822 in 1805 as a widower (assuming that is the correct William Barnard), Banns read at St Saviour, Southwark, Feb 1805.

Question is: if that is the correct marriage, who was his first wife, who presumably was Ann's mother and not Rachael Richards, as she was born 10 years before that marriage?

Any input will be gratefully received.

Ancestry trees are notoriously unreliable

Have you researched the people yourself? Are you 100% certain that Ann’s father is the man whose marriage you refer to?

no baptism on ancestry or fmp for ann catherine 1796
where did you get the dob from

witnesses to the marriage were samuel barnard and e barnard

son
1851
Name: Isaac Jefson
[Isaac Jesson]
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Son
Spouse's Name: Hannah Jefson
Mother's Name: Catherine Parfrey
Gender: Male
Where born: Deptford, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Deptford St Nicholas
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
Town: Deptford
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: Greenwich
Sub-registration District: St Nicholas Deptford
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 248
Piece: 1585
Folio: 188
Page Number: 50
Household Members:
Name Age
Catherine Parfrey 52 -------- mother
Isaac Jefson 29
Hannah Jefson 32
Racheal Tarpey 16
Joan Jefson 6 Mo
Samuel Redford 18
Thomas Ellen 21
Richard J Cantis 45

Name: Isaac John Jesson
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 2 Sep 1821
Baptism Place: England, Deptford St Paul, Lewisham
Father:
Isaac Jesson
Mother:
Catharine Jesson
Register Type: Parish Registers

???
Eleanor Catherine
Last name Jesson
Name note -
Marriage year 1833
Marriage date 30 Dec 1833
Marriage place Lee
Spouse's first name(s) William
Spouse's last name Parfrey
Spouse's age -
Residence Lee, Kent, England
County Kent
Country England

Name: Eleanor Catherine Jesson
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Widowed -----
Marriage Date: 30 Dec 1833
Marriage Place: Lee, Kent, England
Spouse:
William Parfrey
FHL Film Number: 1469430

Name: Catherine Helena Parfrey
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1799
Registration Year: 1872
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 73
Registration District: Greenwich
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 479

Ann is in 35 trees on Ancestry, many (possibly all, but of course I haven't looked at them all) claiming that date and place of birth - without proof.

Just the usual all too common wrong assumptions, and too much blindly copying from other people's trees without checking, where a little comon sense would show many of the mistakes.

For instance, "proof" of her age is claimed to be the 1841 census record of an Ann Barnard who is the wife of a James Barnard!

1841

Grove Lane, St Nicholas Deptford, Greenwich, London & Kent, England

Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
Catharine Parfrey Female 40 1801 Kent, England
Richard Jesson Male 20 1821 Kent, England
Mary Jesson Female 11 1830 Kent, England
Joseph Jesson Male 8 1833 Kent, England
Rachael Parfrey Female 5 1836 Kent, England
Mary Hewitt Female 20 1821 -
John Fenwick Male 20 1821 -
Camilla Trower Female 25 1816 Kent, England
Jane Trower Female 2 1839 Kent, England
John Williams Male 35 1806 Wales
Mary Cox Female 35 1806 Wales
John Cox Male 13 1828 Wales
Charles Cox Male 0 1841 Kent, England

just wondering if this could be witness samuel
no bapt for him either

1`841
Name: Samuel Barnard
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Gender: Male
Where born: Kent, England
Civil Parish: St Nicholas
Hundred: Blackheath
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
View image
Registration District: Greenwich
Sub-registration District: St Nicholas Deptford
Neighbors:
Piece: 488
Book: 1
Folio: 26
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Barnard 35
Thomas Barnard 45

1861
Creek Road, St Nicholas, Greenwich, London & Kent, England
Samuel Barnard Head Unmarried Male 58 1803 Lighterman Deptford, Kent, England
Thomas Barnard Lodger Unmarried Male 73 1788 Lighterman Deptford, Kent, England
Ann Barnard Lodger Widow Female 62 1799 - Deptford, Kent, England
Richard Barnard Nephew - Male 9 1852 Scholar Deptford, Kent, England

Name: Rachel Parfrey
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 24 Dec 1834
Baptism Date: 14 Jan 1835
Baptism Place: St. Paul, Deptford, Kent, England
Father: William Parfrey
Mother: Eleanor Catharine Parfrey

Name: Rachel Parfrey
Gender: Female
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 7 Mar 1852
Marriage Place: St James, Bermondsey, Southwark, England
Father: William Parfrey
Spouse: Samuel Ratherford

Name: Isaac Jesson
Age: 46
Record Type: Burial
Birth Date: abt 1784
Death Date: abt 1830
Burial Date: 18 Apr 1830

burial
Isaac
Last name Jesson
Birth year 1784
Age at death AGED 46 YEARS
Death year 1830
Burial year 1830
Burial date 1830 Apr 18
Residence FROM GROVE LANE
Place Deptford, St Nicholas
County Kent
Country England
Source
St.Nicholas 1813-1847 Burials
Record set Kent Burials

The 1796 date is from the tree on Ancestry.
It's verifying it which is proving difficult.
Another source suggests 1799.

Assuming anything on Ancestry trees to be accurate is very unwise

1851 census suggests a later birth, based on her stated age. This seems to be verified by her death info

Name: Catherine Parfrey
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1799
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Deptford, Kent, England

Have you used the same 'source' to identify her father? Or have you researched that yourself, and found proof?
Is any of the 'info' in your opening post - apart from her marriage - actually proven by you?

only 2 bapts coming up but do not specify where



Ann
Last name Barnard
Birth year 1796
Birth date 04 Aug 1796
Place -
Denomination Dissenters
Father's first name(s) John
Mother's first name(s) Jane
County London
Country England
The National Archives reference TNA/RG/4/4661
Description LONDON: Dr Williams' Library Registry; Registers of certificates: 1-4429

Ann
Last name Barnard
Gender Female
Birth year 1797
Birth place -
Baptism year 1797
Baptism date 04 Mar 1797
Place -
County London
Country England
Father's first name(s) Robert
Father's last name Barnard
Mother's first name(s) Ann

and she changed her forename after her marriage

It's all speculation re her birth.

Might as well throw in another one:

Ann Barnard
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Ann Barnard
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 10 Jan 1802
Baptism Place: Bexley,Kent,England
Father: Willm. Barnard
Mother: Elizth.
FHL Film Number: 0992672, 0992454

That child had a brother William, baptised 1804.


EDIT:

No - probably not.
This looks like the father William's death:

William Barnard
in the England, Select Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991
Name: William Barnard
Gender: Male
Age: 47
Birth Date: 1773
Burial Date: 26 Mar 1820
Burial Place: Bexley, Kent, England
FHL Film Number: 1469314
Reference ID: 224

Thank you everone for your input. With that and some more research:

Looking back at the censuses and death records it now sems pretty certain that Ann Catherine Barnard was born in 1799 and that the 1796 date in the Ancestry tree is incorrect.

Her first husband Isaac Jesson died in 1830 and she remarried to William Parfrey in 1833. He died in 1840 after having one daughter, Rachael, born 24 Dec 1834 who was 16 on the 1851 census.

I now doubt that the 1759 William Barnard is the correct one.

I'll carry on double-checking.

I agree Ancestry trees are unverified and unreliable. Recently came across an apparent grandfather aged 28, a father aged 9 and a chap fathering children 10 years after dying. Maybe they had sperm banks and in vitro fertilisation in the 1800s?