Genealogy Chat

His father's supposed name seems to have been given as St J[ames ?] Charles, rather than Charles St James:


Charles St James Witts
in the Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985
Name: Charles St James Witts
Birth Year: abt 1907
Age: 71
Death Place: Warrnambool, Victoria
Father's Name: St J Charles. . . . . .
Mother's Name: Mary Elizabe. . . . . .
Registration Year: 1978
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Number: 28122


Not that that helps in the slightest!

Many thanks for your replies:
Erika H - Thanks for the circulation - maybe I should change my focus to Cheltenham
Erika H & ArgyllGran - Exactly - that is the 1928 departure on the passenger list and I do have the Australian side
Erika H - It was the mother Bessie WITTS formerly WILLIAMS who registered the birth
Gwyn in Kent - Thanks - I saw the Upton Marriage but didn't associate her with Weston-super-Mare. I'll keep that one in mind as irrespective of what she wrote on the birth registration I'm not sure she and Charles were married!.
Gwyn in Kent - I have a copy of the baptism record - says his birth date: 5 Dec 1906, baptism date: 28 Apr 1907, Child: Charles St James, Parents: John & Clara WITTS, residence: Seaton Sluice, Occupation: Labourer - the birth date and his name agree with the birth certificate
His family were told by him that he was raised by an uncle.
When he died his family notified that his father was Charles St James WITTS and his mother Mary Elizabeth. However this is provided by family. I haven't seen his marriage certificate (yet).
Thanks to everyone

I thought I'd found a suitable Bessie Williams, a servant,b. Uphill, living in Weston-super-Mare in 1901, but I think she married ( to UPTON ) and moved to Wales by 1911.
Been hunting too for WITT clerks in 1911, ...........

I find it strange that the baptism shows different 'parents'.
Have you seen the actual parish entry, which might hold more clues?

If Charles St James carried the WITT surname, it was probably unusual for a child to be raised by paternal relatives unless something happened to the mother.
Was there any other contact between father and son?
Was Charles ( senior) named when his son married?

Who registered the 1906 birth?

Nope, can't find anything about any of them, I'm afraid. (Apart from the emigration and Australian records for C St J.)

For INFO only

First name(s) C St J
Last name Witts
Title MR
Gender Male
Age 21
Birth year 1907
Occupation Farm Worker
Departure year 1928
Departure day 23
Departure month 11
Departure port London
Destination port Fremantle

Last UK address: 9 Stephenson Street, North Shields.

One must hope that the 1921 census will prove helpful

The Gloucestershire Echo was/is circulated mainly in Cheltenham and its environs

Further detail - the child was Charles St James WITTS born 5 Dec 1906. He was baptised 28 Apr 1907 in Northumberland at Seaton-Delaval to John & Clara WITTS. John was a labourer from Seaton-Sluice. Charles St James WITTS left North Shields in 1928 to emigrate to Australia. I have his family here in Australia and his death. He told his family that he was brought up by an uncle - presumably John WITTS of the baptism. I have looked in the 1901 & 1911 censues for John & Clara - failed. I have looked for a marriage of John & Clara - failed. There were WITTS living up in Northumberland at that time but I have not been able to bring John, Charles or the others together!. So I amd going looking in bristol & gloucester in the hope I can find some leads.!

Dear ArgyllGran,
That is very kind of you. The parents on the Dec 1906 birth certificate were given as Charles WITTS, an auctioneers clerk & Bessie WITTS formerley Williams. I've tried looking for a marriage (even under Elizabeth) but failed to find what I would call "suitable". I've tried looking for Clerks & Austionerrs in the 1901 & 1911 censuses but again failed. However, becuase of Kay's discovery I have found a few advertisments from Mrs Allard from Feb-Apr 1907 all in the Gloucestershire Echo. I've searched for Mrs Allard in the Weston-super-Mare directories for 1902 & 1914 and in the 1901 & 1911 census and again failed. I am beginning to wonder if Bessie William (& Charles WITTS) were from the marketing area of the Gloucestershire Echo, nameley Bristol & Gloucester and read one of these ads before the birth and went there to give separation and reduce "shame" so I am now going to double check the Bristol/Gloucester areas.

You're welcome, Francis.

We love a puzzle!

If you would like more help in tracing the parents , please tell us their names and what you know already, and we'll have a look.
Sometimes fresh eyes can find something not spotted before.

BRILLIANT!!! I have been writing replies to ArgyllGran but found the way to post my reply here.
First sorry I didn't get back earlier
Second Many thanks to all of you who have replied. Now to AgyllGran - Yes I did check the 1901 & 1911, I also checked the Kelly's directories for 1902, 1914 & 1919. Then I discovered a report that W-S-M renumbered Clifton Road in 1908 so I guess they tended to use numbers from then. I am in touch with someone who lives in the area and they will go to the library & archives when lockdown is lifted.
But now my special thanks to Kay??? for finding that newspaper report/advert (I tried newspapers but never saw that) and to ArgyllGran for the full details. That is the first mention I have seen of Winchelsea House - so many, many thanks. I'll follow that up!!
Now Shirley~I'm getting the hang of it (what beautiful names some of you have!!) - Why the lady went to a boarding house to have the baby. We can never be sure but - she stated the father's name on the certificate and said she was nee Williams which implies she was married. However I have not been able to identify the marriage. I have a similar situation in another family and the mother was sent to another part to have the child which was subsequently adopted. In this case it looks as though the child was adopted by is parental uncle. However now I have some more info I will delve deeper. Many thanks to everyone who thought about this. Thanks
Francis

Perhaps she wasn't intending to actually give birth in the boarding house!

Or maybe she was a long-term resident and it was her home - even an Allard (married to someone with another surname) , for all we know .

Wonder why the lady went to a boarding house to have a baby ?

That sounds like a boarding house.

The full sentence is:

"VISITORS to Weston will find comfortable apartments close sea and station; good catering and attendance; moderate terms, with Mrs Allard, Winchelsea House, Clifton-road, Weston."

It's from a column of small ads for accommodation, and the rest of what Kay posted above refers to a different place.
https://tinyurl.com/ch765p3w


However, I don't see any Allards in Weston in either 1901 or 1911.

.
APARTMENTS.
Weston will find comfortable apartments close sea and station; good catering and attendance; moderate terms, with Winchelsea House, Clifton-road^ Weston. f'ECKHAMPTON -To let, furnished. large JLi front sitting-room, also double size front bedroom, 10s. weekly
19 March 1907 - Gloucestershire Echo - Cheltenham, Gloucestershire,.

dont know if this gives any more on the house.?

Somerset Heritage Centre apparently have a plan of Clifton Road dating from late 19th century or early 20th century.

Not viewable online, but you could ask them if Winchelsea House is marked:

https://somerset-cat.swheritage.org.uk/records/D/B/wsm/24/4/31


Or if they have anything at all which mentions it:

https://somerset-cat.swheritage.org.uk/search/all:records/0_50/all/score_desc/clifton%20road

That's why I mentioned the Convalescent Children's Home - in case that had any relevance in spite of not mentioning any maternity services.. Although, looking at the listings, there are only children and staff there in both 1901 and 1911.

Was the mum married ?

Wondering if it was a mother and baby home

Can't see that house name in 1901 either.
Maybe some householder had changed the name??
None of the houses have numbers in 1901 - only names.

To look at the various house names, start with the image for this record, and work your way along - assuming you have access to Ancestry or FMP:

Charles A Lye
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Charles A Lye
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Kate Lye
Birth Place: Weston-Super-Mare, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Weston Super Mare
Ecclesiastical parish: Emmanuel
Town: Weston Super Mare
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street Address: Riversdale, Clfton Road
Registration District: Axbridge
Sub-registration District: Weston Super Mare
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors:
Piece: 2324
Folio: 147
Page Number: 12
Household Schedule Number: 67
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles A Lye 38
Kate Lye 34
Frank P Lye 5

I've trawled the 1911 images for Clifton Road - it's a long road!.

Many of the houses have names ( but not Winchelsea House), or else only numbers.
Perhaps the householder didn't bother writing the name, but only the number - which doesn't help you!


There's a Convalescent Children's Home at 23 Clifton Road.