Genealogy Chat

I have found my great grandparents in the 1911 Census (spelt Pettly) along with their eldest son William (c1898) but there is no mention of their other children:
Henry aka Harry, George (c1899);
Ernest John (b1901) - my granddad;
Alice (c1903);
Ann (Nancy) (c1907);
Arthur Alfred (c1909);

Why would they have not recorded their very young children in the Census. I have looked for the children separately but cannot find them. Any ideas where they could have been?

for ref

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

131, Crampton Road, Beckenham, Bromley, Kent, England

Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William James Pettley Head Married Male 21 1880 Labourer (General) Penge, Surrey, England
Sarah Pettley Wife Married Female 22 1879 - Penge, Surrey, England
William Pettley Son Single Male 3 1898 - Penge, Surrey, England
Henry Pettley Son Single Male 2 1899 - Penge, Surrey, England

1911 says 9 children born 2 died
married 13 yrs

cant see the other children in 1911

Deaths Jun 1900 (>99%)
PETTLEY Rose 0 Bromley 2a 294

Deaths Sep 1903 (>99%)
Pettley John 0 Bromley 2a 250

8 listed on freebmd

Births Jun 1900 (>99%)
PETTLEY Rose Bromley 2a 487

Births Jun 1901 (>99%)
Pettley Arthur Alfred Bromley 2a 484

Births Dec 1901 (>99%)
Pettley Ernest John Bromley 2a 489

Births Mar 1903 (>99%)
Pettley John Bromley 2a 506

Births Jun 1903 (>99%)
PETTLEY Alice Bromley 2a 521 mmn Herbert

Births Jun 1904 (>99%)
PETTLEY Rose Bromley 2a 522

Births Jun 1905 (>99%)
Pettley Walter Bromley 2a 547

Births Mar 1909 (>99%)
Pettley Arthur Alfred Bromley 2a 554


PETTLEY, HENRY GEORGE HERBERT
GRO Reference: 1898 D Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 297


Births Mar 1898
Herbert William Petley Croydon 2a 250

In case with grandparents and mistakenly under their surname

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
PETTLEY, ERNEST JOHN HERBERT
GRO Reference: 1901 D Quarter in BROMLEY Volume 02A Page 489

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1898 (>99%)
Herbert Sarah Ann Croydon 2a 345 <<<<<<<
Pettley William Croydon 2a 345 <<<<<<<<
Smith Louise Croydon 2a 345
Wood John Croydon 2a 345

Some of those births posted by Shirley have mmn Sims

no need to wonder what year birth registered - use either freebmd as Shirley has or
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro so shows mmn pre 1912. Need to register but free to use


Only one not finding is William - perhaps born before marriage ?

EDIT - Yes - reg'd as Herbert with no mmn

HERBERT, WILLIAM PETLEY -
GRO Reference: 1898 M Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 250

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
PETTLEY, HENRY GEORGE HERBERT
GRO Reference: 1898 D Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 297

PETTLEY, ROSE HERBERT
GRO Reference: 1900 J Quarter in BROMLEY Volume 02A Page 487

PETTLEY, ERNEST JOHN HERBERT
GRO Reference: 1901 D Quarter in BROMLEY Volume 02A Page 489PETTLEY,

ALICE HERBERT
GRO Reference: 1903 J Quarter in BROMLEY Volume 02A Page 521

PETTLEY, WALTER HERBERT
GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in BROMLEY Volume 02A Page 547

PETTLEY, ANNIE HERBERT
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 304

PETTLEY, ARTHUR ALFRED HERBERT
GRO Reference: 1909 M Quarter in BROMLEY Volume 02A Page 554

PETTLEY, ALEXANDER FRANK HERBERT
GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 352


The John Pettley death posted by Malyon was one of the mmn Sims births

Alice??

Alice Pettley
in the London, England, School Admissions and Discharges, 1912-1918
Name: Alice Pettley
Gender: Female
Admission Age: 12
Birth Date: 7 Mar 1903
Admission Date: 27 Sep 1915
Admission Place: London, England
School: Telferscot Road School
School Address: Emmanuel Road
Father: William Pettley

Had to find it on FMP. It’s not on ancestry

So William filled it in and maybe he thought he has only to list adult children


1911 Census For England & Wales
120 St Hugh's Road, Penge, Surrey & Kent, England

William J Pettly Head Married Male 33 1878 Coal Porter Penge
Sarah Ann Pettly Wife Married Female 33 1878 - Penge
William James Pettly Son - Male 13 1898 - Penge

Married 13 years 9 children born 7 still living

England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

First name(s) Alexander F
Last name Pettley
Gender Male
Birth year 1911
Age 0
Death quarter 1
Death year 1911
District Croydon
County Surrey
Volume 2A
Page 214

Different spelling on Ancestry's transcription:

William James Pettey
in the 1911 England Census
Name: William James Pettey
Age in 1911: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Penge
Civil Parish: Penge
Country: England
Street Address: 120 St Hugh's Road, Anerley
Registration District Number: 39
Sub-registration District: Penge
ED, institution, or vessel: 03
Piece: 3407
Household Members:
Name Age
William Pettey 33 - coal porter
Sarah Ann Pettey 33
William James Pettey 13



Arthur Alfred:

Arthur Petley
in the London, England, School Admissions and Discharges, 1912-1918
Name: Arthur Petley
Gender: Male
Admission Age: 7
Birth Date: 27 Feb 1909
Admission Date: 1 Nov 1916
Admission Place: London, England
School: Mitcham Lane School
School Address: Mitcham Lane, Streatham
Father: William Petley , coalman <<<<<<<<<<<<

Address: 8 Clarks Cottages. <<<<<<<<<<<<

death for william james

Deaths Dec 1944 (>99%)
Pettley William J 65 Wandsworth 1d 260

William James Pettley
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: William James Pettley
Electoral Date: 1939
Street Address: 7 Clark's Cottages [ 8 Clarks Cottages on image ]
Ward or Division/Constituency: Wandsworth Central
County or Borough: Wandsworth, England

He's with a Louisa Pettley.


Willm S Pattler
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Willm S Pattler
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 1 Apr 1880
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 8 Clarks Cottage <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Residence Place: Wandsworth, London, England
Occupation: General Labourer
Line Number: 17
Schedule Number: 88
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: AXCN
Borough: Wandsworth
Inferred Spouse:
Louisa Pattler
Inferred Children:
Violet Pattler
Household Members Age
Willm S Pattler 59
Louisa Pattler 62 - 9 Dec 1877
Violet Pattler 19 - 11 May 1920



PETTLEY, VIOLET mmn HERBERT
GRO Reference: 1920 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 1295


William James's second marriage:

Marriages Dec 1923 (>99%)
Pepper Louisa Pettley Wandsworth 1d 1225
Pettley William J Pepper Wandsworth 1d 1225

?? Henry George cremated as George Henry 11.2.1988 West Norwood Crematorium aged 89

??Arthur Alfred buried 11.1.1949 at Streatham Cemetery aged 47

Greyghost

I deleted my question who are the nine children when my iPad updated with your post naming the children :-D

Post 1911 census births

PETTLEY, ALFRED HERBERT
GRO Reference: 1912 M Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 681

PETTLEY, ELSIE MAY HERBERT
GRO Reference: 1914 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 1274

PETTLEY, VIOLET HERBERT
GRO Reference: 1920 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 1295

Shirley, we must have crossed - have deleted the reply

Posting for fun, as Maralyn may well have all this family history already .

Elsie May:

Marriages Sep 1934 (>99%)
Finch John S Pettley Wandsworth 1d 1769
Pettley Elsie M Finch Wandsworth 1d 1769


Isabel M Finch
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Isabel M Finch [Elsie M Finch ]
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 5 Aug 1914
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 47
Residence Place: Wandsworth, London, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Line Number: 20
Schedule Number: 110
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: AXQB
Borough: Wandsworth
Registration district: 24-4
Inferred Spouse:
John S Finch
Household Members Age
John S Finch 23
Isabel M Finch 25


Elsie May Finch
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Elsie May Finch
Death Age: 85
Birth Date: 5 Aug 1914
Registration Date: Dec 1999
Registration District: Southwark
Inferred County: Greater London
Register Number: C13A
District and Subdistrict: 2511C
Entry Number: 145



But -
going back to Maralyn's original query, the answer seems likely to be as already suggested, simply that the father William didn't fill in the form correctly.

Thank you all once again for the info put forward. Some of it I was aware of, some not so will add to my tree.

I wondered why most of the children would be missing from the 1911 Census but as suggested, perhaps it was just William leaving them out in error. Might check though that they weren't with maternal grandparents and listed as Herbert's.

Another thought. If the parents had fallen on hard times, could the children have been in put into a workhouse or similar for a short period?

Maralyn

I have searched for years for a baby born in 1911.
He was only a few months old, so should have been at home, but I have looked in hospitals too.
The family state that one child has been born of the marriage and is living, ...but where?
I have 'walked' up and down the street looking at nearby properties in case he was included with a neighbour by mistake.
He is just not there.

Children did go into workhouses during times of hardship and some went in more than once, going back home in between, only to return to the workhouse, when things got tough again.