Genealogy Chat

Hi Carol :-)

Just to introduce myself, I am the 4 x Great Grand Daughter of John Julian and Mary Ann Lanyon. I googled their names and came across this website, so I thought I would check it out. I have tried all the Census information on Ancestry.com.au to no luck and also Cornwall OPC person searches.

I was wondering what site the following nformation came from? I cannot seem to find it anywhere, if anyone can point me in the right direction that would be great.

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Meneage Street, Wendron, Helston, Cornwall, England

First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
John Searle Male 30 1811 Cornwall, England Transcription Occupation SAWYER
Mary Searle Female 30 1811 Cornwall, England Transcription
John Searle Male 9 1832 Cornwall, England Transcription
Edward Searle Male 6 1835 Cornwall, England Transcription
Mary Searle Female 3 1838 Cornwall, England

I cannot find any birth records for John, Edward or Mary junior. The only record I do have is a copy of John Julian's death certificate which under the parents name says ''unknown''. He sadly died in a Lunatic Asylum at age 86 in Ararat, Victoria, Australia.

I would just love to know what street they lived in.

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards
Allison Dougherty ''nee Julian'' :-D

Hi Allison

Welcome to the Boards



Jacqueline posted that 1841 census ........ and I presume that she found it on FindMyPast



However, you should also have noted that it is unknown as to how this fits in with the Julian family ...... Jacqueline made a mistake


Re-posting the relevant posts ............


1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Meneage Street, Wendron, Helston, Cornwall, England

First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
John Searle Male 30 1811 Cornwall, England Transcription Occupation SAWYER
Mary Searle Female 30 1811 Cornwall, England Transcription
John Searle Male 9 1832 Cornwall, England Transcription
Edward Searle Male 6 1835 Cornwall, England Transcription
Mary Searle Female 3 1838 Cornwall, England


Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 19 Feb 2015 12:46

just a bit of a puzzle ????

how did the name change from Julian to Searle as cant see the connection



Carol Report 19 Feb 2015 20:29

Hi Shirley,
I think Jacqueline saw Searle as a surname ie John Thomas Searle Julian.



Jacqueline Report 19 Feb 2015 22:19

You're absolutely correct, Carol.....and I can't think of a plausible excuse!

Kicking myself now..............



Carol Report 20 Feb 2015 03:43

Hi Jacqueline,

Still may come in handy as I don't know how the Searle comes into John's christian names. Sometimes good to look outside the box.

Re marriage from parish registers John Julian to Mary Landyon (probably a spelling mistake) 01 October 1831 St Martin in Meneage both of the Parish, both made their mark, witness John Curkeet

Thanks Jean.

Still can't figure why the family were on the 1841 census as Searle not Julian

Still can't figure why the family were on the 1841 census as Searle not Julian

Yes it is intriguing Jean. I have been told that the Searle name may have come from Mary Ann Lanyon's Mother. I have no proof but a couple of places say her parents were William Lanyon and Margaret Searle.

I now know that John Roberts Julian ( born abt 1811) was the illegitimate son of Susanna Roberts Dotson. Her parents were Mary Julian and Thomas Dotson (Dobson) I cannot find any reference to a marriage for them. The child John was baptised at St Anthonys at Meneage as John Roberts Julian.

Why then he becomes Searle on the census makes no sense. He migrated to Australia a few years later as Julian!!

Frustrating but fun???

Thanks to everyone for your interest and help :-)

The Parish record states that John Julian baptised 10/02/1811 in Manaccan was the son of Susannah Roberts surname Julian, I can't find a record of a marriage for her parents so assume Thomas Dotson & Mary Julian never did, I believe Thomas Dotson was born about 1760 he was buried 25/08/1821,St Martin in meneage there is also a will dated 1822 for a Thomas Dotson St Martin in Meneage, don't know what is in it though

Oh thank you, Jean. Is it possible to access the will online?

Unfortunately no, but if your daughter is over here in April, the Cornwall Record Office has it

I am even more confused now.

I do know that I have John Julian's death certificate and Mary Ann's, poor old John's has no information whatsoever, poor man died in a lunatic asylum. Mary's does however list her childrens names and ages......

I think this is how the Searle and Dotson come into the equation:
Mary Ann Julian died in Clunes, Victoria in 1879.

Her children are listed as follows:

John Thomas Searle Julian aged 46
Edward Dodson Julian aged 43
Mary Ann Julian aged 40
Susan Jane Julian aged 39
Emily aged 34
Eli aged 28

I have a feeling that the census information for the Searle family is the Julian family as I can find no other Julian's in 1841 Census that makes any sense at all and the names make sense.

I have pretty much nearly given up on my search, im getting over it after 10 years of relentless dead ends and thinking that John's parents were John and Elizabeth aaaaaaaaaaghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so frustrating. :-S :-S :-S :-S :-S :-S :-S

Maybe I just need to contact someone in Cornwall or try to get on the show Who Do You Think You Are? LOL

Ok back to my research. Has anyone had any luck with these rascal Julians from Cornwall?

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated as I have only one brain and it can't take much more head bashing against the wall....Ok that is a little dramatic, I think I might be onto something with the Census though, I think that they went by the name Searle......does anyone else agree it would be possible?
Kind Regards
Allison :-D

this could be john julian mothers death


Susannah Dodson
England, Cornwall and Devon Parish Registers
Name: Susannah Dodson
Event Type: Burial
Event Date: 23 Jun 1875
Event Place: St Martin in Meneage, Cornwall, England
Age: 87
Birth Year (Estimated): 1788

Is it possible that he thought of himself as John Searle Julian and gave that name to the enumerator who confused the surname? All the other surnames of the family are written "Do".

Incidentally looking at the 1841 census image, Mary has Ann following her name but it seems to be omitted from the transcript. Admittedly it does give the impression of having a line through it, but does it?

Allison -
you mentioned Mary Ann's death in 1879, with a list of her children.

Does the record you found actually list the children's ages, or just their DOB's?
Seems strange if Susan's listed as "aged 39" if she died in 1848.

http://tinyurl.com/ngnw65o

http://tinyurl.com/ngwkbrx

(relates to Death of son, John Thomas)

Chris :)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y

(Aus. Newspapers)

(also coming up on google search)

Hi Everyone :-)

Thank you so much for everyone's help, I really really appreciate it.

Malyon: I think you could be right regarding Susanna. I only recently realised that John could indeed be illegitimate. Family stories just said his parents were John and Elizabeth, I think that is because of the stigma associated with it. I would be interested to know what site you found the info on? I am with ancestry.com and myheritage, and I usually try to search Cornwall OPC records. I was with findmypast.com.au but I can't afford to keep all of them! LOL

Kense: I really do believe that is the correct family now as they do not appear anywhere else in the UK Census, it makes sense especially since the occupation is Sawyer which is what John did, then John Thomas and Edward all carried on that occupation once in South Australia. Also, the area is right too, so I am hoping it is correct! I think you are correct also in the name, I just looked at it again and it does appear that Ann has a line through it! Also the ages of the 3 children look right. Was wondering also where you found the Census image? I looked for ages and could not find it, I was lucky to find you lovely people here! Oh yes also thinking about John going by the name of Searle it would not surprise me as he had problem after problem after settling in Australia, the poor man went insolvent, then was charged with RUNNING AMOK! in a hotel, apparently slashing the billiard table cloth with a knife and upsetting the poultry! Sadly he died alone in a lunatic Asylum in Victoria! :( The copy of his death certificate is horrible as it says "unknown" in nearly every column.......so so sad!

ArgyllGran: The record is a copy of Mary Ann's Death Certificate and it does indeed name the ages of the children (no DOB at all) as if they were living which I find truly strange as Susan Jane did die aboard the Trafalgar. Mary Ann was pregnant on the voyage also and gave birth to a baby girl whom she named Susan Jane again, but alas that poor child also died!!! so sad :( Also my great grandfather Edward had passed away by that year too, so maybe they just wrote down the names of the children and worked it out?

Chris Ho: Thankyou very much for those trove images. I have searched and searched Trove and found plenty of articles on Edward and Ellen etc.. I just didn't find anything else on John Thomas Searle Julian as I was putting his whole name in quotes! Yes I know, I am silly!

I was also wondering if anyone else could point me in the right direction of trying to find birth information on the 5 children born in Cornwall. We have found only the two Daughters Baptism's. Susan Jane in Redruth, and Mary Anne in Sancreed. I cannot find Edward, John Thomas Searle and Emily. I can only find an Emily Ann and the parents names do not add up at all. I have only recently obtained Mary Ann's death certificate which is how myself and Caz twigged that Dotson was indeed a family name carried through, why else would it be on her death certificate?

I have been wondering if I can actually contact someone in Cornwall, but I don't know who to contact? I really do appreciate everyone's hard work and effort for even looking at these posts as I do realise how much time it takes just to research one name.

Again, thanks to all, Kindest Regards and hope you are all doing well with your searches,

Allison :-D

p.s. I am going to Adelaide in October to pick up my parents and take hubby with me on a family tree search holiday in Blinman, Beltana, and Quorn to see where Edward and his wife and family all settled an made lives for themselves as Early Pioneers. I cannot wait to see where they all lived, laughed and loved. So yes, I am trying to gather as much information to give to my Dad in a book so he can see where his family came from. A bit Like my version of who do you think you are for my Daddy! :-D

Hi Everyone :-)

Wow, reading all that back, I think I ranted too much........ Sorry! Hope someone can point me in the right direction regarding Cornwall.

Kind Regards
Allison

Actually it was Jacqueline who found the 1841 census image.

If you keep looking at the Cornish OPC site then eventually you may find the missing baptisms. If you follow them on Facebook then you are notified when they have added records to the database.

If you have a reason to suspect that the family may have lived in a particular parish that has not yet been transcribed by the OPCs for that period (see their coverage charts), then if images are available you may find them by browsing. It is time consuming but can be very rewarding.

https://familysearch.org/image/viewer#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecapi%2Fsord%2Fwaypoint%2F3CBQ-JWL%3A138123201%3Fcc%3D1769414