Genealogy Chat

While researching my family history I downloaded my late fathers birth certificate, details below,

Cert. 4A 988

Name: Anthony Smith
D.O.B. 03 June 1926
Address: 31 Brennan Road, Chadwell St. Mary, Tilbury, UD.
Father: James Peter Smith, occupation Cook (Merchant Service)
Mother: Rose Violet Smith (Nee Turnage)

I have subsequently found another different birth certificate for Anthony Thomas Smith,

Cert. 4A 969

The details on the second certificate are the same as on my fathers, the address, father and mothers are identical. The only difference is the date of birth, 26 March 1928 and the father, James Peter Smith's occupation is shown as "General Labourer" even the name of the Registrar is the same!

Has anyone come across a situation like this before, where the parents appear to have given almost identical names to two of their children who were born less than two years apart!, and can anyone offer a reason?

My late father often talked about his other brothers and sister but I have never heard of "Anthony Thomas Smith" before.

It does happen when the first child dies, not that there's an obvious death. Are you sure of your father's date of birth? Did he mention a brother Thomas?
Don't worry about the Registrars name - s/he obviously still had the same job!

Thanks for quick response DetEcTive, yes I am sure of my fathers birthday, well he always celebrated his birthday on 3 June.
I have copies of both of these certificates from GRO.
My father passed away in 1991 and I never heard him mention Anthony Thomas or a Thomas at all.
Unfortunately with the Smith surname it is so difficult to try and follow up to try and find other verifiable records for Anthony Thomas i.e. Marriage, census, death records.

Have you managed to find the family on the 1939 Register? Although some of the entries would be Closed, it might be possible to have a count up and 'assume' how many of the children were living at home. (7 born 1917-1939. Deaths not checked)

Violet D (1919) would have been too young to have born a child which could have been brought up as a sibling - Did James or Rose have any close relatives where they may have assumed parentage to cover up an illegitimate birth?

Are you in contact with any cousins from your father's older siblings? They might have been old enough to remember and pass on stories about a new arrival.

It was only when my late father-in-law died that we discovered he had been born two weeks earlier than he'd always said.

my mum said she was born a year earlier than her actual birth

i only found out when talking to my elder sister when mum died in 1980

The thing is, Terence has actual copies of the 2 birth certificates & there doesn’t seem to be a death 1926-1928 to account for an Anthony Smith b Jun 1926.
It’s really weird.

That is so strange!

I'm with DetEctive- have you found them on the 1939 register?

Could this be the brother?

Death
Name: Norman Thomas Smith
Birth Date: 26 Mar 1928
Date of Registration: Jan 1990
Age at Death: 61
Registration district: Colchester
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 9
Page: 2569

EDIT- probably not this one. He's on 1939 register living in Swindon :-|

I'd be inclined to ring the GRO and ask if they can help to explain it.

Kath. x

Thanks to everyone for their responses.
In 1939 register James Peter Smith was living in Holborn, London with his son Patrick M Smith and his wife Rose Violet Smith (shown as Rose Hall on 1939 register, the surname Smith has been crossed through and Hall added) was living with James Hall (she later married James Hall in 1945 following the death of James Peter Smith)
in Barking, Essex.
Living with them was their son Denis Hall DOB 30/4/1932, there is also one record closed which I suspect is their other son Sydney J Hall DOB 21/2/1930
Unfortunately the family spread far and wide and at the moment I am unable to contact any cousins etc.
I also have my fathers original birth certificate from 1926, the 1928 cert is from GRO.

Me too Kathleen-

There's a tree on Ancestry (could be yours Terence) that has your father as Anthony John 'Thomas' Smith b1926, and has a remarriage for your Grandmother to a James Hall.

Presumably it means your father was known as Thomas? (the middle name of the second Anthony b1928) which makes this even more puzzling.

EDIT: sorry, posted this before I read your post above!

AustinQ, Yes that is my family tree on Ancestry, my father was baptised Roman Catholic as and took the middle name John as his confirmation name, I was probably a little confused when I added the Thomas to his name on the tree, I will have to remove the name Thomas from my fathers record.

Terence, were both births registered by the mother?

Yes both were registered by Rose V Smith and both give the same address

What a puzzle ! Following to see what happens !

Joanna, I certainly think it is a puzzle???
I have contacted GRO to ask if they can offer any explaination but have .not received a reply yet. Watch this space!!

It is always possible that an error has occurred in the registration process.

Manual copying was involved so mistakes did occur.

Is it possible that informant accidentally gave the wrong name or the registrar misheard, and then they didn't like to get the registrar to rewrite the certificate it?

Following on from Kense's suggestion.

You said that your family was RC. Might the later date be when a baptismal name was added? Rather than ask for an alteration in the original name, your grandmother could have decided to add the middle name as if Anthony Thomas was a new child. The DOB could have been the baptism date. (Clutching at straws)

Thanks again DetEcTive, i have considered that idea, I believe that Anthony was baptised at "Our Lady Star of the Sea" church Tilbury but I do not know when. I will have to try to find baptism records if they exist?
As I mentioned above, my father often talked about his siblings but never ever mentioned another brother called Anthony or Anthony Thomas.

They are unlikely to be on-line, not only because of the '100 year rule' but also because the RC church keeps their parish records clutched firmly to their chest.

Either try making contact with the Presbtery office, or the Diocese of Brentwood. Both address are available on an internet search