Genealogy Chat

One almost wonders whether it was dear old (clueless) dad doing the registering :-)

and when someone asked him "what is your son's name?"

... he told them ...

:-)

You have certainly got it sorted out anyway!

So glad you were able to sort this! It is a very peculiar tale. Can't help thinking that there was a mistake in registering the birth of Terence- but I don't s'pose we'll ever know.

Thanks for updating us.

"Birth Certificate Puzzle" thread update.

I have now obtained baptism records for my father and his brother.

My father was born 3rd June 1926 with registered name "Anthony" on his birth certificate was Baptised "Anthony Thomas Smith" at Our Lady Star of the Sea RC church,Tilbury on 8th July 1926.

His brother was born 26 March 1928 with registered name "Anthony Thomas Smith" on his birth certificate but he was Baptised "Terence Peter Smith" also at Our Lady Star of the Sea RC church, Tilbury on 14 May 1928.
Unfortunately Terence Peter Smith died later the same year and was buried in December 1928.

I never heard anyone in the family mention Terence Peter and I still cannot understand why my grand parents would register their son with the name Anthony Thomas and then baptise him Terence Peter, I guess I will never know???

Thanks again to everyone for their contributions and help.

Terry :-)

grr, blast Freebmd :-)

Births Mar 1927
Smith Am_on A Gudgeon Edmonton 3a 865

I didn't use my wildcards :-D

good luck with the baptism - maybe ask them about the second Anthony too, to try to sort it out.

Thanks for your input JoonieCloonie but I have found a birth record for Amnon A Smith, he was born in Edmonton, Oxfordshire J/F/M 1927 ref. 3a 865 mother maiden name Gudgeon.
I have emailed the church, "Our Lady Star of the Sea" in Tilbury to ask if they have a baptism record for my father which should be 1926 as they tended to get children baptised very young then. I have not received a reply yet.

one other theory ... is it possible your father got hold of the wrong birth certificate?

because I wonder about this death

Deaths Mar 1927
Smith Amnon A age 0 Orsett 4a 784

because there is no such birth (any Smith birth in Orsett 1926-27 that would fit)

it would fit with the first Anthony birth, with your father then being the second

Births Sep 1926
Smith Anthony Turnage Orsett 4a 988
Births Jun 1928
Smith Anthony T Turnage Orsett 4a 969

as noted, people did mistake their own birthdays ... my grandfather born c1900 was 2 days and a year out on the date of his (his mother having died when he was young probably being a contributing factor) and didn't know until he retired.

Thanks DetEcTive I will try that and report any progress on this thread :-)

They are unlikely to be on-line, not only because of the '100 year rule' but also because the RC church keeps their parish records clutched firmly to their chest.

Either try making contact with the Presbtery office, or the Diocese of Brentwood. Both address are available on an internet search

Thanks again DetEcTive, i have considered that idea, I believe that Anthony was baptised at "Our Lady Star of the Sea" church Tilbury but I do not know when. I will have to try to find baptism records if they exist?
As I mentioned above, my father often talked about his siblings but never ever mentioned another brother called Anthony or Anthony Thomas.

Following on from Kense's suggestion.

You said that your family was RC. Might the later date be when a baptismal name was added? Rather than ask for an alteration in the original name, your grandmother could have decided to add the middle name as if Anthony Thomas was a new child. The DOB could have been the baptism date. (Clutching at straws)

It is always possible that an error has occurred in the registration process.

Manual copying was involved so mistakes did occur.

Is it possible that informant accidentally gave the wrong name or the registrar misheard, and then they didn't like to get the registrar to rewrite the certificate it?

Joanna, I certainly think it is a puzzle???
I have contacted GRO to ask if they can offer any explaination but have .not received a reply yet. Watch this space!!

What a puzzle ! Following to see what happens !

Yes both were registered by Rose V Smith and both give the same address

Terence, were both births registered by the mother?

AustinQ, Yes that is my family tree on Ancestry, my father was baptised Roman Catholic as and took the middle name John as his confirmation name, I was probably a little confused when I added the Thomas to his name on the tree, I will have to remove the name Thomas from my fathers record.

Me too Kathleen-

There's a tree on Ancestry (could be yours Terence) that has your father as Anthony John 'Thomas' Smith b1926, and has a remarriage for your Grandmother to a James Hall.

Presumably it means your father was known as Thomas? (the middle name of the second Anthony b1928) which makes this even more puzzling.

EDIT: sorry, posted this before I read your post above!

Thanks to everyone for their responses.
In 1939 register James Peter Smith was living in Holborn, London with his son Patrick M Smith and his wife Rose Violet Smith (shown as Rose Hall on 1939 register, the surname Smith has been crossed through and Hall added) was living with James Hall (she later married James Hall in 1945 following the death of James Peter Smith)
in Barking, Essex.
Living with them was their son Denis Hall DOB 30/4/1932, there is also one record closed which I suspect is their other son Sydney J Hall DOB 21/2/1930
Unfortunately the family spread far and wide and at the moment I am unable to contact any cousins etc.
I also have my fathers original birth certificate from 1926, the 1928 cert is from GRO.

I'd be inclined to ring the GRO and ask if they can help to explain it.

Kath. x

That is so strange!

I'm with DetEctive- have you found them on the 1939 register?

Could this be the brother?

Death
Name: Norman Thomas Smith
Birth Date: 26 Mar 1928
Date of Registration: Jan 1990
Age at Death: 61
Registration district: Colchester
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 9
Page: 2569

EDIT- probably not this one. He's on 1939 register living in Swindon :-|