Genealogy Chat

I certainly agree that the Wyatt-Willetts marriage is the right people.

I don't understand Argyllgran why you say that David Wyatt's mother would be unknown.

Surely she registered his birth

WYATT, DAVID -
GRO Reference: 1874 J Quarter in STOURBRIDGE Volume 06C Page 179

-- her surname is given as '-' because it is the same is his, no?

Aha, I think you meant to say 'It doesn't look as if you'll ever know David's *father's* name" maybe.

Michael if you do not have that birth certificate, you need to order it for whatever info it will have:

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/app_select.asp

also for Ellen

WILLETTS, ELLEN JAMES
GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in STOURBRIDGE Volume 06C Page 195

It is always wise to have the actual documents to see what they say (even if sometimes what they say is nothing, or is even false).


Do remember to answer in this thread by using the 'Add your reply' box at the bottom, and not by sending private messages to people (that nobody else can see :-) )

about this from Ancestry for the 1881 census:

David Wyatt
in the 1881 England Census
Name: David Wyatt
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relationship to Head: Grandson
Father: William Wyatt <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


the census does not say that William is David's father

it says that David is the grandson of James - Ancestry has completely incorrectly created the relationship with James's son Wililam

David is obviously the son of an unmarried daughter of James Wyatt, a sister of Samuel and William.

Now for the life of me I cannot find this family in 1861 or 1871 to see what daughters there were.


Samuel's birth, probably

WYATT, SAMUEL mother WORTON
GRO Reference: 1856 S Quarter in STOURBRIDGE Volume 06C Page 144

so parents' marriage

Marriages Sep 1846
Worton Ann Dudley 18 317
Wyatt James Dudley 18 317

so ... daughters

WYATT, ANN - WORTON
GRO Reference: 1846 D Quarter in STOURBRIDGE UNION Volume 18 Page 442

WYATT, MERCY - WORTON
GRO Reference: 1850 S Quarter in STOURBRIDGE UNION Volume 18 Page 468

and still I can't find them in 61 or 71

okay, 1851 in Cradley


James Wyat 24
Ann Wyat 24
Ann Wyat 4
George Wyat 2
Mercy Wyat 7 Mo


and ... 1861 in Cradley


James Wyatt 34
Ann Wyatt 34
Ann Wyatt 14
George Wyatt 12
Ellin Wyatt 8
Samuel Wyatt 4
William Wyatt 2

looks like Mercy has become Ellin


but 1871 I'm still coming up empty - so David's birth certificate is needed anyway, because with two daughters to choose from, and the difficulty of trying to figure out whether one of them had married before David was born, it would be total guesswork without the certificate.

Even without it, you can be confident of David's grandparents, it would seem.

Aha, 1881


Name: Ellen Pearson
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relationship to Head: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Parkside Cradley, Worcestershire, England
Civil Parish: Lye
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Street address: High St
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Chain Maker >> chair maker of course
Registration district: Stourbridge

William Pearson 32 )
Ellen Pearson 30 ) married with children
Joseph Pearson 10
Annie Pearson 2
William Westwood 43
Martha Westwood 37
John Westwood 13
Albert Westwood 11
Calarine Westwood 9
Ann Westwood 6

Marriages Jun 1878
PEARSON William
WYATT Ellen Stourbridge 6c 263


I suspect the 10-yr-old Joseph was William's child from a previous marriage

... or ... no, he was Mercy/Ellen's son before marriage too:

WYATT, JOSEPH -
GRO Reference: 1871 D Quarter in STOURBRIDGE Volume 06C Page 163


PEARSON, JOHN - WYATT
GRO Reference: 1880 S Quarter in STOURBRIDGE Volume 06C Page 176

PEARSON, ANN - WYATT
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in STOURBRIDGE Volume 06C Page 177


the idea being that Mercy/Ellen married after David Wyatt was born, so there is a good chance she is David's mother as well as the older Joseph's

but get the birth certificate! :-)

Oh duh ...
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N53N-9LJ

Name David Wyatt
Gender Male
Christening Date 06 Jul 1874
Christening Date (Original) 06 JUL 1874
Christening Place CRADLEY,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
>> Mother's Name Ellen Wyatt


But Ellen wasn't Mercy after all

Ellen's birth

WHYATT, ELLEN - MORTON
GRO Reference: 1852 D Quarter in STOURBRIDGE UNION Volume 06C Page 136

so that's a little messed up on two fronts there, spelling-wise



just for completeness, Mercy died in childhood, under the same spelling as Ellen's birth

Deaths Dec 1853
Whyatt Mercy Stourbridge 6c 102 or 108

For 1871 Ancestry has:
Living in Ginger Bread Row, Cradley,
James Waycott 41 Lye
Ellen Waycott 16 Lye
Samuel Waycott 12 Cradley
William Waycott 10 Cradley
All are chain makers
Class: RG10; Piece: 3019; Folio: 23; Page: 39; GSU roll: 838829

Joonie, I had already posted 1861 census, and David's christening.

For below passenger, says he is going to Cousin James Wyatt, 189, Galoup? Street, Providence RI (looking on google search, could be Gallop)

Chris :)

Massachusetts, Boston Passenger Lists, 1820-1943 Transcription (Find My Past)

Sex Male
First name(s) David
Last name Wyatt
Arrival year 1906
Birth year 1874
Ship name Republic
Birthplace/nationality England
Age 32
Arrival city Boston
Arrival county Suffolk
Arrival state Massachusetts
Arrival country United States
(Chainmaker/B.Smith. Birmingham. Cradley Heath)


Births Dec 1868 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
WYATT James Stourbridge 6c 147


Marriages Mar 1868 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------
Grove Roseannah Stourbridge 6c 152
Wyatt George Stourbridge 6c 152


West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1868

WYATT George GROVE Roseannah Cradley, St Peter Dudley Register Office

http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/index.php


1881 (Find My Past)
George Wyatt Head Married Male 32 1849 Chain Maker Cradley, Worcestershire, England
Rosanna Wyatt Wife Married Female 32 1849 Chain Maker Cradley, Worcestershire, England
James Wyatt Son Single Male 12 1869 Scholar Cradley, Worcestershire, England
Ellen Wyatt Daughter Single Female 10 1871 Scholar Cradley, Worcestershire, England
Ann Wyatt Daughter Single Female 8 1873 Scholar Cradley, Worcestershire, England
Clara Wyatt Daughter Single Female 6 1875 Scholar Cradley, Worcestershire, England
Joseph Wyatt Son Single Male 4 1877 Scholar Cradley, Worcestershire, England
Alice Wyatt Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Cradley, Worcestershire, England
Street Windmill Lane
Parish Cradley
County Worcestershire
Registration district Stourbridge
Archive reference RG11
Piece number 2884
Folio 106
Page 11


England, Births & Baptisms 1538-1975 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) James
Last name Wyatt
Gender Male
Baptism year 1870
Baptism date 28 Feb 1870
Place Cradley
County Worcestershire
Father's first name(s) George
Father's last name Wyatt
Mother's first name(s) Rosanna


1910 US Census Transcription (Find My Past)

Albert Elliott Self Married Male 35 1875 England
Clara Elliott Wife Married Female 35 1875 England
James A Elliott Son Single Male 12 1898 Rhode Island
Lillie M Elliott Daughter Single Female 10 1900 Rhode Island
James Wyatt (Boarder) Single Male 41 1869 England (Chainmaker Jewellery Shop)
Fields Point
City/township Providence Ward 6
County Providence
State Rhode Island

(just to add for other David Wyatt, Norfolk)

Chris :)

County Norfolk
Place Yaxham
Church name St Peter
Register type Parish Register
Marriage date 27 Oct 1892
Groom forename David
Groom surname WYATT
Groom condition Widower
Groom parish Yaxham
Groom occupation Shoemaker
Bride forename Ellen Charlotte
Bride surname COHEN
Bride condition Spinster
Bride parish Yaxham
Groom father forename David
Groom father surname WYATT
Groom father occupation Deceased
Bride father forename Joseph Lewis
Bride father surname COHEN
Bride father occupation Deceased
Witness Charles Joshua PAGE
Witness Clare Boyden WEAR
Register note Banns Both Full Age

https://www.freereg.org.uk/


20 June 1891 - Norwich Mercury - Norwich, Norfolk, England

Death
Wyatt. On the 15th inst., at Yaxham, Sarah, the beloved wife of David Wyatt, aged 46 years, after a long illness.

Oh dear patchem, sorry, I was trying to wade through all the extraneous Norfolk Wyatt business and skipped over the 1861 and christening info.

I hope Michael understands now that all of the Norfolk info in this thread is purely to demonstrate that it is *not* related to his David Wyatt and David's wife Ellen.


In reading the thread I had spotted the Ancestry error in the 1881 census (calling David the son of William Wyatt in Cradley) and wanted to clarify that.


Oh well, now we have the info about mother Ellen's subsequent marriage and other children!


And then I can make my usual recommendation, if Michael knows a male-line descendant of David -- a son of a son of a son etc. of David --

... that the person do a YDNA test, which determines the paternal DNA. That DNA result can be matched with someone else descended in that line, if such a person has done a test and his results are available at one or more of the testing companies for matching

... or that Michael do an autosomal test ('Family Finder' at Family Tree DNA, for example, or the test that Ancestry offers) to see whether a match might be found with a cousins on David's side of Michael's tree who has tested.

(Michael I assume that you are not a male-line descendant, that is, that somewhere between David Wyatt and you, you descend from a daughter rather than a son.)

And Michael, if you 'search trees' at this site, someone has these people in his tree:

David Wyatt 1874 Cradley-Stourbridge ...
James Wyatt 1823 Cradley. Worcs. ...

and someone else has

Ann Pearson 1878 Lye, Worcestershire,...

WOW, Joonie you indicate i was looking at the wrong David of Norfolk. i will re-post today on the request "And then I can make my usual recommendation, if Michael knows a male-line descendant of David -- a son of a son of a son etc. of David --" i can get more specific on this side of the pond. No dna has been given. your assumption is correct i am not a descendant, wife's mother is a Wyatt so i am trying to surprise her.

It starts with the daughter (Sally) of Joseph Edward Wyatt and Sarah Elizabeth Wyatt (Gaddis, a few different spelling of Gaddis - Geddis - Giddis). Joseph had a few offspring, Jean, David, Robert, and Judith of which all are dead except Sally. Sally married Robert Almeida.

I traced Joseph from essex county Billlerica Massachusetts to Poestenkill New York to where he was born 1909 in Providence, Rhode Island . His parents were David and Ellen Wyatt. The 1910 US census places David in Rhode Island with a birth of 1874 in England with a possible date of 1906 immigration. From there I came here and thought it was the David in Nortfork. Hope this helps

Hi Michael, I was really just agreeing with the several other people who had figured out which David Wyatt was yours, and not the Norfolk one. :-)

but I wasn't quite sure whether you had picked that up clearly.

When you say "I will re-post today on the request" can you explain what you mean there?

Not to post another thread about this family though please! Keeping all the info together in one thread is the best way to get help with any related questions (and avoid ticking off people who would not know what research has already been done!)

no by re-post i meant reply i did that already at 17:17, not a new thread.

You may find Wyatt's in Harmondsworth, Middlesex.