Genealogy Chat

I was wondering if anyone could help me with some information on a Charles Somerville Swinburne. I know he died in 1880 in Victoria. I also know that he married Elizabeth Laffer around 1850. They had several children in Victoria. Some died in South Australia. Charles's wife Elizabeth died 1910 in Sth Australia.
I am looking for a birth for Charles Swinburne and a marriage to Elizabeth Laffer. Elizabeth came from Cornwall. Also his parents names. A newsaper clipping refers Charles as being from Birmingham when his daughter Elizabeth married a James Stokes.
Any info would be greatly appreciated . Thank You.

Patricia

He also seems to be as Charles Summerville Swinburne...

Chris :)

SWINBURNE
Given namesEllen
EventBirth
Father's name / Spouse's family nameCharles Summerv
Mother's maiden name / Spouse's given nameElizabeth (Laffer)
Reg. year1867


SWINBURNE
Given namesEmma
EventBirth
Father's name / Spouse's family nameCharles Summerv
Mother's maiden name / Spouse's given nameElizabeth (Taffer)
Reg. year1869
Reg. no22992

https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj

(from above link)


https://tinyurl.com/yc3n3cb3

(and above 1869, relating to Land)

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y

(Newspapers)

Dates for helpers' reference -

A tree on Ancestry (possibly yours, Patricia? ) says he was born 1819 Birmingham - no proof given - and that he married Elizabeth Jemima Laffer (1830 Falmouth-1910) in Adelaide in 1852.
She was baptised 21/10/1829 in Talland, Cornwall.

Charles Swinburn
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Charles Swinburn
Residence Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 11 Mar 1819
Christening Date (Original): 11 Mar 1819
Christening Place: St. Peters, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: Jeremiah Swinburn
Mother's Name: Anne

Chas Somerville Swinburn
in the Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985
Name: Chas Somerville Swinburn
Birth Year: abt 1819
Age: 61
Death Place: Victoria
Father's name: U
Registration Year: 1880
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Number: 7530

If Birmingham is correct, then there's this possibility:


Charles Swinbern
England Births and Christenings
Name Charles Swinbern
Gender Male
Christening Date 31 May 1822
Christening Date (Original) 31 MAY 1822
Christening Place SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
Birth Date 22 Mar 1816
Father's Name Samuel Swinbern
Mother's Name Ann


But no way to prove it.

In any case, there are also marriage and census records for a Charles Swinburne (various spellings) born Birmingham 1816, who married Elizabeth Boden and had several children - records after your Charles was in Australia - so that might be the one in the birth record above..

Based on location - and suggestion ONLY for family

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Weaman Row, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Charles Swinburne Male 45 1796 - Transcription
Mary Swinburne Female 50 1791 - Transcription
John Swinburne Male 20 1821 Warwickshire, England Transcription
Lydia Watson Female 15 1826 Warwickshire, England Transcription
Eleanor Marlow Female 70 1771

Name: Charles Swinburne
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 11 Jun 1794
Baptism Place: Yardley, St Edburgha, Worcestershire, England
Parish as it Appears: Yardley, St Edburgha
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: Rich Swinburne
Mother: Bett Swinburne

Name: Elizabeth Jemima Laffer
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 21 Oct 1830
Baptism Place: Talland,Cornwall,England
Father: James Laffer
Mother: Emma
FHL Film Number: 916986

Name: James Laffer
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 25 Oct 1828
Marriage Place: Talland,Cornwall,England
Spouse: Emma Richards
FHL Film Number: 916986

Name: James Laffer
Baptism Date: Jun 1836
Parent 1: James Laffer
Parent 2: EmmaLaffer
Parish: Talland
County: Cornwall


NAME: Eliza Laffer
MOTHER: Emma Laffer
FATHER: James Laffer
BAPTISM: Oct 1830 - Cornwall
England, Pallot's Baptism Index, 1780-1837


NAME: Helen Laffer
MOTHER: Emma Laffer
FATHER: James Laffer
BAPTISM: Oct 1830 - Cornwall
England, Pallot's Baptism Index, 1780-1837


NAME: Mary Laffer
MOTHER: Emna?? Laffer
FATHER: James Laffer
BAPTISM: Jan 1832 - Cornwall
England, Pallot's Baptism Index, 1780-1837


NAME: Philip Laffer
MOTHER: Emma Laffer
FATHER: James Laffer
BAPTISM: Jul 1834 - Cornwall

Hello ArgyllGran,
Yes, that is my tree. Got the dates from his death notice as shown born 1819 died aged 61. Thought someone may have been able to pin point a proper date of birth for him with parents names. Also I put married 1852 because I thought I found that somewhere but have been unable to find it again. Thanks for your help.

Hello ErikaH,
Thanks very much for all the info on the Laffers.

Chris Ho
Thanks for the info from Trove.

Am sure you know, for things Marriage, South Australia, below...

https://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html

Death
1910 349/427 SWINBOURNE Elizabeth Charles SWINBOURNE

Chris :)

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/

(above for Cornwall)


Baptism
Day Month 21-Oct
Year 1830
Parish Or Reg District Talland
Forename Elizabeth Jemima
Surname LAFFER
Sex
Father Forename James
Mother Forename Emma
Residence Polperro
Father Rank Profession Gent
Notes Received into the Church It appears from a certificate that Elizth Jemima Laffer was privately baptized by Revd Mr Evans Cur of Pelynt March 3 1829


Who was their first child?...

(below Obituary Elizabeth Stokes 1933, mention of her Birth, Kyneton)

https://tinyurl.com/yda9s4u5

Who was below?...

Chris :)

South Australia Marriages 1842-1937 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Elizabeth
Last name Laffer
Marital status Single/spinster
Age Full
Marriage year 1851
Marriage date 19 Apr 1851
Place Rc Church Adelaide
District Adelaide
State South Australia
Country Australia
Spouse's first name(s) John
Spouse's last name Horgan
Spouse's marital status Single/Spinster
Spouse's age Full

(although here is also a Elizabeth Horgan Marriage 1867 Victoria, Joseph Maggs, No image)

Presumably Elizabeth Jemima's death, with Charles mistranscribed as father instead of husband;

Elizabeth Swinbourne
in the Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985
Name: Elizabeth Swinbourne
Birth Year: abt 1833 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ????
Age: 77
Death Date: 21 Jun 1910
Death Place: Port Lincoln
Residence Place: White'S Flat Nr Koopio
Father's name: Charles Swinbourne
Registration Place: Flinders, South Australia
Page Number: 427
Volume Number: 349


Patricia - there seems to be no mention of the middle name Jemima in any of the Swinburne records posted so far.
Are you sure that Charles's wife was Elizabeth Jemima (1829) - or could she have been some other Elizabeth Laffer?

As well as the John Horgan and Joseph Maggs marriages mentioned by Chris, there's also this one (though much later):

Clarence Lewis
in the Australia, Marriage Index, 1788-1950
Name: Clarence Lewis
Father's name: George Lewis
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Laffer
Spouse's Father's Name: Philip Frederic Laffer
Marriage Date: 08 Jun 1892
Marriage Place: St Luke Churchadelaide
Registration Place: Adelaide, South Australia
Page Number: 973
Volume Number: 171


EDIT:

No, the one who married Clarence is much younger - she had a child in 1893:

Clarence George Lewis
in the Australia, Birth Index, 1788-1922
Name: Clarence George Lewis
Birth Date: 20 Jul 1893
Birth Place: Blackwood
Registration Place: Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Father: Clarence Lewis
Mother: Elizabeth Laffer
Page Number: 406
Volume Number: 524

Deaths of some of the Swinburne children:


Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985
Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Name: James Swinburne
Mother: Elizabeth Laffer
Death: 1867 - Victoria


Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985
Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Name: Emma Swinburne
Mother: Elizabeth Laffer
Birth: abt 1868
Death: 1869 - Victoria


Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985
Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Name: Henry Swinburne
Mother: Elizabeth Laffer
Birth: abt 1872
Death: 1873 - Victoria


Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985
Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Name: William Swinburne
Mother: Elizabeth Laffer
Birth: abt 1872
Death: 1873 - Victoria

ArgyllGran,
The baptism for Elizabeth Jemima Laffer in 1830 that Chris Ho has mentioned has jemima included. That is the one I am pretty sure that married Charles Swinburne.

Chris Ho,
The first child of Elizabeth Laffer and Charles Swinburne was Charles Frederick born Victoria 1859 and died 1935.

(oh right, saw that 1859 Birth, but wasn't sure if more before.)

That Surname does vary!...wonders when Elizabeth went To Australia...

Chris :)

(below look to be her Parents)

Day Month 25-Oct
Year 1828
Parish Or Reg District Talland
Groom Fn James
Groom Sn LAFFER
Groom Age
Groom Residence otp
Groom Condition bachelor
Groom Rank Profession gentleman
Groom Signed / Marked (S/M) S
Groom Father Name
Groom Father Rank Profession
Bride Fn Emma
Bride Sn RICHARDS
Bride Age
Bride Residence otp
Bride Condition spinster
Bride Rank Profession
Bride Signed / Marked (S/M) S
Bride Father Name
Bride Father Rank Profession
Banns / Licence (B/L) L
Witness Fn1 Elizabeth
Witness Sn1 Gower
Witness Fn2 George
Witness Sn2 Richards

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/

(those other siblings of hers, perhaps one or more of them went also!, not seeing Burials for Parents, Cornwall)

1830 Talland Helen LAFFER James Emma
1832 Talland Mary LAFFER James Emma
1834 Talland Philip Ferdinand LAFFER James Emma
1836 Talland James LAFFER James Emma


Birth
LAFFER, HENRY (RICHARDS)
GRO Reference: 1838 J Quarter in LISKEARD Volume 09 Page 183

(could be another, if you wanted find occ. of James, hopefully!)


(so he went, below from FMP)

Laffer Henry 1838 1922 1922 South Australia Deaths 1842-1972 Sturt, Adelaide, South Australia, Australia


Laffer Henry 1837 — 1893 South Australia Marriages 1842-1937 [unrecorded] Norwood, Norwood, South Australia, Australia

(Father, James Laffer. Spouse, Amy Cashmore)

(Trove bringing up items, a Marriage 1871, Mary Laffer/Luke Franklin, also Helen Laffer Death 1853, Emma Laffer Death 1879, James Laffer Death, 1889)

You may already know of above...(but looking likely the Marriage for Elizabeth/Charles not England!)


https://tinyurl.com/y96djehl

(above was that 1887 item, with Birmingham reference)