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KeithG
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6 Jul 2021 20:50 |
I'd greatly appreciate some assistance please, figuring out the details of the family Wickens. Here they are in 1891:
Name: William Wickens Gender: Male Age: 36 Relationship: Head Birth Year: 1855 Spouse: Sarah Wickens Child: Frank Wickens Florence Wickens Williams Wickens Emily Wickens Fred Wickens Birth Place: Banghlfeald Civil Parish: Tunbridge Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter Residence Place: Southborough, Tunbridge, Kent, England Registration District: Tunbridge Sub registration district: Tunbridge Wells ED, Institution or Vessel: 28 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 680 Folio: 62 Household Members: Name Age William Wickens 36 Sarah Wickens 31 Frank Wickens 10 Florence Wickens 8 Williams Wickens 7 Emily Wickens 6 Fred Wickens 3
and here's William, now a widower, in 1901:
Name: William Wickens Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male Birth Place: Heathfield, Sussex, England Civil Parish: Southborough Ecclesiastical parish: Southborough St Peter Town: Southborough County/Island: Kent Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image Registration District: Tonbridge Sub-registration District: Tunbridge Wells ED, institution, or vessel: 31 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 756 Folio: 31 Page Number: 8 Household Schedule Number: 54 Household Members: Name Age William Wickens 45 Sophia Molyneux 25 <<< boarder Fred Wickens 13 Ethel Wickens 10 Elise Molyneux 1 <<< boarder
I've searched Ancestry and FMP for Sarah Wicken's maiden name without success. There's a misleading marriage record near Leicester IIRC but that is a different family.
I've looked on GRO and FMP for birth records for each of the children and have failed to find consistent believable records. In particular, all of the children's records have different MMNs. The closest I came were MMN = Rollings, Rawlings, Rawlinson in separate records - close but no cigar!
No baptism records have turned up either.
If it helps, my initial interest was in Ethel Wickens 1891, sister of Florence Ada Wickens 1882 (married to Charles Cheeseman), found together in C1911
I must be missing something obvious, can you please help me find it?
Many thanks
Keith
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ErikaH
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6 Jul 2021 20:59 |
You didn’t post birthplaces for all
Fred and Emily on 1891 were said to be born Wiltshire
Sarah was born in Trowbridge
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KeithG
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6 Jul 2021 21:17 |
True! Although (in my own defence :-0) I didn't find them very useful!!
Fred - born Tonbridge Kent Ethel - Southboro[ugh Kent] Florence - Sevenoaks, Kent Frank (maybe Francis?) - Shipern, Kent William - Shippern??, Pooad?? Emily - Hay Dun, Wiltshire Fred - Hay Dun, Wiltshire - conflict with Tonbridge ...
HTH
Keith
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KeithG
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6 Jul 2021 21:30 |
BTW this is (what I believe to be) the misleading record I referred to above:
Name: William Wickens Age: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851 Relationship to Head: Head Spouse: Sarah Wickens Gender: Male Where born: Golangton, Bedfordshire, England Civil Parish: Leicester St Margaret County/Island: Leicestershire Country: England Street Address: 8 Oxendon St Marital status: Married Education: Employment status: View image Occupation: Carpenter Registration District: Leicester ED, institution, or vessel: 19 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 3158 Folio: 102 Page Number: 10 Household Members: Name Age William Wickens 30 Sarah Wickens 26 Florence Ada Wickens 1
For elimination purposes
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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7 Jul 2021 07:06 |
Ethel Wickens born Southborough Kent
That came under Tonbridge reg district
So
WICKENS, ETHEL RAWLINSON GRO Reference: 1892 M Quarter in TONBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 668
And
WICKENS, FRANK RAWLINGSON GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in MALLING Volume 02A Page 598
Emily is in fact Emma !
WICKENS, EMMA RAWLINSON GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in TUNBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 712
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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7 Jul 2021 07:30 |
Fred
They didn’t complete the name I think
WICKENS, FRED RAWLINGS GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in SEVENOAKS Volume 02A Page 673
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KeithG
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7 Jul 2021 08:08 |
Thank you Shirley!
Yes, I'd found most of those, hence my comment in my initial post about "MMN = Rollings, Rawlings, Rawlinson" - although I hadn't spotted Emily = Emma, thank you very much for that!
However I was unable to find records for the other children with MMN in the same "group".
This feels like a step forwards. I'd tentatively grouped the Rawlings et al names and put the variation down to how the name was spoken at the time of registration. It gives me some confidence that you have the same inclination.
Looking at the available records for the other children (eg William, Fred) there doesn't seem to be anything similar.
And I have not yet found a marriage for Wickens + Rawlings or variants ...
Thank you again!
Keith
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KeithG
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7 Jul 2021 08:12 |
err... what about this for William?
WICKENS, WILLIAM JOHN ROLLINSON GRO Reference: 1883 D Quarter in SEVENOAKS Volume 02A Page 622
And I wis-wrote:
Looking at the available records for the other children (eg William, Fred) there doesn't seem to be anything similar.
Should have been:
Looking at the available records for the other children (eg William, Florence) there doesn't seem to be anything similar.
Keith
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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7 Jul 2021 08:33 |
There doesn’t seem to be a marriage either
Guess the only way is to buy one of the certs for its info
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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7 Jul 2021 08:38 |
1911 census
Charles Cheeseman Age in 1911: 31 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male Birth Place: Woking, Surrey, England Civil Parish: Horsell Search Photos: Search for 'Horsell' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection Country: England Street Address: Hensbury Cottage, Horsell Common Woking, Surrey Marital status: Married Occupation: Machinist Registration District Number: 32 Sub-registration District: Chobham ED, institution, or vessel: 03 Piece: 3017 Household Members: Name Age Charles Cheeseman 31 Florance Cheeseman 28 Maud Cheeseman 3 Ethel Wickens 19 sister in law born Tunbridge
WICKENS, ETHEL RAWLINSON GRO Reference: 1892 M Quarter in TONBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 668
Marriages Jun 1906 (>99%) CHEESMAN Charles Tonbridge 2a 1586 Wickens Florence Ada Tonbridge 2a 1586
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KeithG
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7 Jul 2021 08:46 |
Yes, that C1911 was where this all began. It's actually the Mephams I'm tracing and Ethel married a Mepham. To find her parents I had to investigate all of her siblings and I'm still not there!!
And yes, I think you're right, another spending spree with the GRO is called for!!
Keith
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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7 Jul 2021 08:54 |
Not seeing a birth reg for Florence Ada Wickens
Wonder on this one
RAWLINGS, FLORENCE ADA - GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in SEVENOAKS Volume 02A Page 626
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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7 Jul 2021 09:08 |
Not seeing a death for a Sarah wickens pre 1901
Wonder on this one
Jun 1899 Rawlinson Sarah 41 Tunbridge 2a 435
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KeithG
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7 Jul 2021 09:46 |
Oh brilliant, Shirley, that has to be it!
RAWLINGS, FLORENCE ADA - GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in SEVENOAKS Volume 02A Page 626
And that may well be as close as we'll come to the "correct" family name.
Thank you!
Keith
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ArgyllGran
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7 Jul 2021 12:11 |
Just to add -
It's just coincidence that both Wickens families - the correct Kent one and the incorrect Leicester one - have daughters named Florence Ada of roughly the same age.
You posted 1881 for the Leicester family.
Here they are in 1891:
William Wickens in the 1891 England Census Name: William Wickens Gender: Male Age: 40 Relationship: Head Birth Year: 1851 Spouse: Sarah Wickens Child: Mabel A Wickens Evelyn M Wickens Oscar W Wickens Birth Place: Goldington, Bedfordshire, England Civil Parish: St Margaret Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter Residence Place: St Margaret, Leicestershire, England Registration District: Leicester Sub registration district: East Leicester ED, Institution or Vessel: 18 Neighbors: Piece: 2526 Folio: 28 Household Members: Name Age William Wickens 40 Sarah Wickens 36 - Belton, Rutland Mabel A Wickens 8 - Leicester Evelyn M Wickens 3 - Leicester Oscar W Wickens 1 - Leicester
WICKENS, OSCAR WILLIAM mmn SPENCER GRO Reference: 1889 D Quarter in LEICESTER Volume 07A Page 244
So this is the Leicester Florence Ada:
WICKENS, FLORENCE ADA mmn SPENCER GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in LEICESTER Volume 07A Page 246
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KeithG
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7 Jul 2021 12:49 |
Thank you ArgyllGran. I came to the same conclusion but it was terribly tempting to try and force the family to travel between Leicester and Tonbridge ;-)
Keith
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KeithG
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12 Jul 2021 16:37 |
I have now received the GRO record for Florence Ada Rawlings birth, which confirms Shirley's conclusion. The birth date matches the one in the 1939 record. Thank you again, Shirley.
It raises a couple of further questions however. Under the mother's name, Sarah Jane Rawlings, there's what looks like a lower case a or d, and then below that "Cook". I don't recall seeing anything like this before and I wonder whether anyone can suggest how to interpret it? You can see the image here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bgv019c46oj1p24/COL277107_2021-1-Florence_Ada_Rawlings.pdf?dl=0
Then there's the C1891 showing Florence and Frank:
Name: William Wickens Gender: Male Age: 36 Relationship: Head Birth Year: 1855 Spouse: Sarah Wickens Child: Frank Wickens Florence Wickens Williams Wickens Emily Wickens Fred Wickens Birth Place: Banghlfeald Civil Parish: Tunbridge Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter Residence Place: Southborough, Tunbridge, Kent, England Registration District: Tunbridge Sub registration district: Tunbridge Wells ED, Institution or Vessel: 28 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 680 Folio: 62 Household Members: Name Age William Wickens 36 Sarah Wickens 31 Frank Wickens 10 <<< difficult to read but compares with Frank higher up the page Florence Wickens 8 Williams Wickens 7 Emily Wickens 6 Fred Wickens 3
Note that Frank was born 2 years before Florence.
I'd previously thought that this was Frank's birth:
WICKENS, FRANK RAWLINGSON GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in MALLING Volume 02A Page 598
Rawlingson being very close to Rawlings, and the birth date being in the right quarter. But that raises the question: why no father's name on the birth registration for Florence?
Which lead to this possible christening:
Name: Frank Wickens Gender: Male Birth Date: 14 Apr 1880 <<< Baptism Date: 13 Jun 1880 Baptism Place: Rothfield, Sussex, England Father: Amos Wickens Mother: Eliza FHL Film Number: 1067280 Reference ID: item 8 p 56
Which made me wonder whether Frank was "farmed out" to William and Sarah Jane? But no, this Frank is with Amos & Eliza in Rotherfield in C1891 so it's unlikely he was also in Tunbridge Wells - see the above census.
So I'm left wondering why the father's name was missing from the birth registration.
I have yet to find a believable marriage for Sarah Jane Rawlings and William Wickens - perhaps they did not marry?
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ErikaH
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12 Jul 2021 16:40 |
Looks like 'a Cook' - occupation?
The father's name is missing because the child was illegitimate.
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ArgyllGran
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12 Jul 2021 16:56 |
I agree - "a cook".
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ArgyllGran
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12 Jul 2021 17:05 |
Sarah Jane wasn't at 12 Prospect Place (her address on the 1882 birth cert) in 1881:
John T. Luetchford in the 1881 England Census Name: John T. Luetchford [John T. Letchford] Age: 2 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879 Relationship to Head: Son Father: John Letchford Mother: Martha Letchford Gender: Male Where born: Sevenoaks, Kent, England Civil Parish: Sevenoaks County/Island: Kent Country: England Street Address: 12 Prospect Place <<<<<<<<<<<<< Education: Employment status: View image Registration District: Sevenoaks ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: Piece: 907 Folio: 86 Page Number: 3 Household Members: Name Age John Letchford 32 Martha Letchford 30 William G. Luetchford 9 Ellen J. Luetchford 6 Henry C. Luetchford 5 John T. Luetchford 2 Arthur N. Luetchford
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