Genealogy Chat

Help required please I have a Mary Jane Barnes my Greatx4 Grandmother. She married Frederick Machell on the 25th October 1852 in Kensington District London. On this certificate it says she was 20 years old at time of marriage, a spinsiter and that her fathers name is James Barnes, occupation a Carman, I am unable to read the residence at time of marriage unfortunately. I have found her in the 1861 cenus, known as Jane Machell living at 4 Farm Lane, Fulham with husband and children, on this cenus it says she is born Fulham, Middlesex. On 1871 cenus she is living at 16 Imperial Cottages, Fulham again with Frederick and children, this time it says she was born in Wiltshire. I believe Wiltshire is where she is born as in this cenus it says Frederick was born Cheam, Surrey and I have proved this correct. But I cant find Mary Jane Barnes before her marriage in 1852?? Help please -I believe she was born somewhere between 1832-1834 in Wiltshire Thanks Joanna

Hi Joanna, Could she have been in service see below. Name: Mary Jane Barnes Age: 18 Estimated birth year: abt 1833 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Chippenham, Wiltshire, England Civil parish: Chippenham Town: Chippenham County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Chippenham Sub-registration district: Castle Combe ED, institution, or vessel: 3a Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 39 Household Members: Name Age Mary Jane Barnes 18 Ann Elliott 70 Ebenezer Elliott 12 Elizabeth Elliott 20 Henry Elliott 75 Louisa Elliott 30 Mary Elliott 55 Mary Elliott 23 Mary Elliott 73 Martha Gale 80

Do you know if she worked as a servant before her marriage? I've found this on Ancestry. It's a long shot, but you never know: Mary Jane Barnes Name: Mary Jane Barnes Age: 18 Estimated birth year: abt 1833 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Chippenham, Wiltshire, England Civil parish: Chippenham Town: Chippenham County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Chippenham Sub-registration district: Castle Combe ED, institution, or vessel: 3a Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 39 Household Members: Name Age Mary Jane Barnes 18 Ann Elliott 70 Ebenezer Elliott 12 Elizabeth Elliott 20 Henry Elliott 75 Louisa Elliott 30 Mary Elliott 55 Mary Elliott 23 Mary Elliott 73 Martha Gale 80

Thanks Betty and Amanda I certainly believe it is possible she would of been in service in 1851, this sounds a good lead, and gives me Chippenham, Wiltshire Thanks Joanna

1841 no parents Elizabeth Barnes abt 1835 Wiltshire, England Chippenham Wiltshire View Record Joseph Barnes abt 1827 Wiltshire, England Chippenham Wiltshire ===w Record Mary Jane Barnes abt 1833 Wiltshire, England Chippenham Wiltshire View Record Samuel Barnes abt 1829 Wiltshire, England Chippenham Wiltshire View Record Thomas Barnes abt 1831 Wiltshire, England Chippenham Wiltshire View Record William Barnes abt 1825 Wiltshire, England Chippenham Wiltshire View Record Mary Cozens abt 1755 Wiltshire, England Chippenham Wiltshire

Jeanette This is the problem, no parents, so dont know how to prove that this is definitley my Mary Jane Barnes Joanna

Joanna, I've found her in 1841 as well. Spelling this time is Barns and her father James, born 1810, is there also.: Exact Search Results - 1841 England Census Refine your search All Census ResultsViewing 1-7 of 7 View Record Name Estimated birth year Birthplace Civil parish County/Island View Image View Record Ann Barns abt 1835 Wiltshire, England Corsley Wiltshire View Record Eliza Barns abt 1810 Wiltshire, England Corsley Wiltshire View Record Elizabeth Barns abt 1839 Wiltshire, England Corsley Wiltshire View Record James Barns abt 1810 Wiltshire, England Corsley Wiltshire View Record Lydia Barns abt 1837 Wiltshire, England Corsley Wiltshire View Record Mary Barns abt 1833 Wiltshire, England Corsley Wiltshire View Record William Barns abt 1841 Wiltshire, England Corsley Wiltshire

Joanna Front sheet reads: Mary Barns Name: Mary Barns Age: 8 Estimated birth year: abt 1833 Household: View other family members Gender: Female Where born: Wiltshire, England Civil parish: Corsley Hundred: Warminster County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: View image Source information: HO107/1187/2 Registration district: Warminster Sub-registration district: Warminster ED, institution, or vessel: 12 Folio: 6 Page: 4 (click to see others on page) Line number: 4 GSU Number: 464202

Amanda Thank you so so much, had not found this and this is so so interesting will look and check into further. Joanna

Amanda Is it possible to find these family in 1851 cenus as well? Joanna

Joanna I've had a look, using both variations of the name and even without the surname, just looking for James and Eliza. I've even checked for each of the children individually, but no luck. The only possible connection is to a girl called Ann Barnes, whose age matches Mary Jane's sister (born 1835) and who is also employed as a servant at another house in Wiltshire. There may be no connection, but it's here anyway: Ann Barnes Age: 16 Estimated birth year: abt 1835 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Malmesbury, Wiltshire, England Civil parish: Malmesbury St Paul Ecclesiastical parish: Malmesbury Town: Malmesbury County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Malmesbury Sub-registration district: Malmesbury Eastern ED, institution, or vessel: 1, 2, and 8 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 48 Household Members: Name Age Ann Barnes 16 Edmund M Lyne 2 Elizabeth Lyne 38 John Lyne 12 John G Lyne 41 Lucy G Lyne 7 Richard Lyne 5 Thomas Lyne 11 William Lyne 16 Ann Peaple 15 Sorry I couldn't be more help. Regards Amanda PS if it helps, the 1841 census says that everyonw within the family was born in the county of Wiltshire, so that's where you need to focus when going backwards.

Amanda Thank you so so much for that look up. I have found the family in the 1861 cenus (no Mary, but if it mine she is married now, so thats looking good) and in this cenus they are BARNES, I have also found all the brothers and sisters after 1837 births in Warminster District, Wiltshire. The only thing that does not match is that James Barnes is an Agricultral Labourer or Carter -could this be similar to Carman? What is definition of occupation Carman anyway?? This is really promising that you so much again Amanda for this lead. Joanna

Joanna My pleasure. If I do come across anything else, I'll let you know. I think carman means exactly the same as carter (or cart maker). Best wishes Amanda

Amanda Thanks again Joanna

Hope this helps. Carman/Charman/Carrier/Carter/Cartman Driver of (horse-drawn) vehicles for transporting goods. Carmen were often employed by railway companies for local deliveries and collections of goods and parcels. Modern day van driver. Also sometimes someone who drove horse-drawn trams was called a Carman.

ozibird Certainly does thank you Joanna

Joanna Just a thought - You said you have found the family in 1861. Were any more children born between the 1841 and 1851? If so, they could help in locating the family in 1851. Regards Amanda

Amanda I dont have any access to the 1851 cenus, but yes there was more children born between 1841 and 1851 there was John Barnes 1844 Charles Barnes 1845 Harriet Barnes 1848 Thomas Barnes 1851 All birth's found on the register as Warminster District, Wiltshire -this covers Corsley I believe. It does say Thomas 1851 was born in Corsley Wiltshire. If this helps find the 1851 cenus for this family Father James Barnes 1810 Eliza Barnes 1810 other children Mary Barnes 1833 Annie Barnes 1835 Lydia 1837 Elizabeth 1839 William 1841 Joanna

All dear Still hoping for a look up in Corsley, Wiltshire for the Barns/Barnes family in the 1851 cenus please. Any help greatful received Thanks Joanna

Hi Joanna I have looked again using the other children's names, but have had no luck. It's probable a mistake was made and they were put under a completely different surname. Having said that, I have searched without a surname, but still got nowhere. Sorry Amanda